Quote from: MaltMilchek on March 15, 2018, 11:39:28 PM

Quote from: FrueGreads on March 15, 2018, 03:12:40 PM

Bitcoin is not really a social project, and if bitcoin gets adopted, rich people have more money, so they can buy more. The distribution will remain the same, that will not change....

Bitcoin sets itself as a new payment system. It's as simple as that! ...

Bitcoin was not made for the poor to get rich, and the rich to lose their money. Bitcoin was created so that a better payment system exists in our world.

True, it was more an observation of some of the ideals the community have adopted - or at least the image is presented.

The white paper is, as you say, straightforward in that it's essentially about money over IP, nowhere in there is talk of revolution or overthrowing traditional financial institutions - that has been implied and appended by members of the community, who have taken to this more as evangelists on a mission.

Quote from: jimbo2000 on March 15, 2018, 03:03:18 PM

The manipulation you speak of is no secret and I struggle to see how it is any different to the current market. I think the harsh reality of it is that in any system where the rich, educated and experienced can take advantage of the poor, less educated and less experienced for their own personal gain - then that will happen.

A shame that we cannot escape this part of the human condition - for the time being. It might be centuries before we move on from this antiquated way of thinking - don't take this the wrong way, I'm for open free markets and capitalism - but it's the human condition (irrationality, fear, greed) that basically spoil what could be an elegant system.

I understand that Bitcoin isn't here to solve these problems, but it doesn't help that the community seems to preach that it will. Plus, I assumed the 'new money' personalities that crypto minted would be of the ilk that might try to solve these problems, instead, all I see is the same manipulation, the same greed.

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There were a lot more replies here than I expected, so apologies I can't reply to everyone, but I've read through all of them - thanks for replying with your thoughts and balance to this discussion.

I agree that BTC is not about philanthropy (although there have been some fantastic examples) and that crypto isn't some global effort to re-distribute wealth proportionately, even though it is redistributing wealth to some degree. However, this is the 'image' that crypto portrays to a lot of people; that it isn't just tech solution, it's about a revolution in many ways.

To me, that revolution is nullified by the economic landscape that crypto has built, where it's basically the same as our current 1% system in many ways - which isn't the end of the world, it's just an observation of the difference in the image and the reality.

I suppose after some thought, my main concern right now is that larger players are hindering adoption through their manipulation and greed. Sure, we may never live in a 'fair' world, and that's fine, nature isn't fair, the universe isn't fair, perhaps it's a utopian pipe dream, and that's OK, but if the goal is to have BTC or crypto adopted globally, then how does that work with such blatant manipulation? As another user said:

Quote from: mrcash02 on March 15, 2018, 10:09:02 PM

Whales will be abandoned with a worthless currency...
Or they will turn it into a centralized market with majority's approval and will keep ruling everything as always, then decentralization fails.

Satoshi added the "The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks" thing in the genesis block for a reason (for these that don't know what this is, refer to:

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Genesis_block

Why did he add that paper here if he didn't want to point out at how the current system is failing therefore bitcoin is subervise of the legacy system attempting to overthrown it?

Im not sure to what extent he wanted to do that, but I think that was his ultimate fate for Bitcoin, to destroy all fiat.