Quote from: tspacepilot on April 20, 2015, 08:53:47 PM

It's a good thing that you're not on a jury to decide proof or we'd all be pretty fucked. What salty says here, which is reasonable, is questioning why I didn't deny that I withdrew something earned by a bot. The plain fact of the matter is that as this accusation is nearly 3 years old, it's really hard to honestly say why I did or did not reply in a certain way that long ass time ago. What I can say now, as I recall clearly, is that I was using coinchat for chatting (not by bot) and gambling (not by bot), I was experimenting to make a bot (with tradefortress' help, teaching me about the api), and that he accused me of all kinds of random things after that (making up number, making up usernames, etc). How you think this adds up to "proof" is beyond me.

Like I said before, I knew you weren't going to admit to scamming because that is the kind of person you are.

Secondly, you are strengthening your argument by saying this is from almost three years ago. This is a lie. The thread in question was created in September 2013, and considering that it is now April 2015, the activity in question was from just under 19 months ago, which is roughly 1.5 years ago.

To address your concern that you did not deny using a bot "3" (1.5) years ago and "cannot" recall why, the consensus was very clear that you had admitted to scamming TF and CoinChat and that you were in the wrong.

Quote from: r3wt on September 28, 2013, 07:01:37 AM

wait a damn minute s o youwere using a bought to make btc chatting and don't understand why you were banned? Cry

maybe because thats completely uneffin fair. Roll Eyes

Quote from: Mitchełł on September 28, 2013, 07:11:58 AM

You don't have to sign a ToS for it to be active. Using the service means that you agree with the ToS. Damn, how can someone be so ignorant as you?
You spammed with a bot to get BTC and now TF wants it back. Sounds legit and logical to me.

My 2 cents.

Quote from: r3wt on September 28, 2013, 03:28:32 PM

give it up. you botted his site, got caught and now you're mad he found you.

Quote from: Mitchełł on September 28, 2013, 08:53:42 PM

Well. I am going to stick with TF on this one. He abused the system and broke the rules. Why should anyone trust him if he cannot even follow simple rules? I think its good that TF tells people about it.

Quote from: dwdoc on September 28, 2013, 09:24:17 PM

If Tspacepilot cares more about his trust rating here than his ego I'll bet if he admits prior guilt and apologizes to TradeFortress he might see his trust rating restored. I think TradeFortress did the right thing initially warning the forum with limited information.

Many of us on the forum have been scammed by new members.

Quote from: Mitchełł on September 29, 2013, 11:13:28 AM

0) Your bad. Mods have better things to do then constantly repeating the rules.
1+2) As soon as you use the site, you make an agreement with the site owner (TF in this case). So you have agreed to follow the rules.

You used a bot, which is only allowed if it has "bot" in his name. So "b0t" isn't allowed. You were abusing the system and that is illegal, no matter what. So stop whining, be a man and give the BTC back which you earned by breaking the rules.

Quote from: bitcoin44me on September 30, 2013, 06:58:23 AM

You should calm down.

Whatever you are arguying about the CoinChat problem, does not change anything.
If I understand correctly, you admitted that you used a bot, even if you were sometimes chatting normally.

Anyway, you will never get the trust rating removed before paying back TF what he wants (half of coin or something).

From now on. You have 2 options:
1) paying back the coin, and not being marked as a scammer here.
2) refusing to pay back and being marked as a scammer.

If you don't pay back, regardless of you thinking it as unfair, you will be marked as a scammer.
And in my opinion, if you break the rules of a btc related website, you are not really trustworthy.

That said, you can keep crying here, but it won't change a damn thing.
You have 2 options (I said it earlier). Choose which one you want to take and move on.

Quote from: bitcoin44me on September 30, 2013, 07:02:08 AM

Second sentence is only an example. It does not mean that it has to be a currency trade, just an example...

If the facts are true, and it seems that you do not even deny them ; you actually did steal that amount of btc from TF.
Does not matter anyway: trust rating are not moderated.

Quote from: Mitchełł on September 30, 2013, 07:54:08 AM

-sighs- You are not stealing if you follow the rules. According to TF you broke the rules. So pay up or shut up.

Quote from: manoamano on September 30, 2013, 08:05:22 AM

Why so much drama?
You don't want to pay back?
You don't like the trust rating?

This discussion seems pointless and endless Sad

Quote from: n00ber on September 30, 2013, 08:14:46 AM

Clearly tspacepilot did is unethical. Its common sense. My advise to you tspacepilot refund TradeFortress and move on.

Quote from: Mitchełł on September 30, 2013, 02:42:44 PM

Did you just seriously called me a sockpuppet? Because I agree with TF's opinion? You must be an idiot.

Quote from: DeathProxy on September 30, 2013, 02:48:02 PM

Quote from: tspacepilot on September 30, 2013, 02:41:13 PM

Quote from: DeathProxy on September 30, 2013, 02:19:53 PM

You have 2 choices

1. Refund TF and apologize
2. Create new alt and back to square 1

The tf alt patrol seems to be marching through this thread.

I'm in no way affiliated with TF.

You create a bot and spam coinchat and withdraw bitcoin. You are not following the rules. Is that hard to understand?

Quote from: tysat on September 30, 2013, 03:57:00 PM

Quote from: SaltySpitoon on September 30, 2013, 02:50:25 PM

You check the terms and conditions of a site, before signing up. That is kind of the expectation that you understand the rules of a site before using it.

The rules explicitly state that all bots must have "bot" in the name so that they Do not get paid for chatting. You make a bot that does not follow those rules, and illegitimately gain .5 BTC. I cant understand what the misunderstanding his here, you stole .5 BTC from Tradefortress by using a bot that was not allowed. You get paid for chatting on coinchat, not having a bot spam for you, and because of your bot, Tradefortress is out .5BTC hence the negative trust.

I'm really not understanding where the question of, why don't I get negative trust for stealing .5BTC from someone? If it was an honest mistake, you would have seen that it was against the rules, said oh sorry, and returned the ill gotten coins.

Edit* And after thinking it over, I don't really buy that you werent aware of the rules in the first place. Why would you have named your bot b0t rather than bot had you not known that names with bot don't get paid?

Salty sums this up well, I agree with him. OP looks to be completely in the wrong here, TF in the right.

Quote from: gotpetum on September 30, 2013, 06:06:38 PM

What matters is if TF used the trust system in accordance with its rules. According to theymos,

Quote

On feedback pages, you can leave trade feedback. There are no rules for this

Therefore, TF can use feedback for whatever he wants. If it becomes frivolous, then people will ignore TF's trust or the entire trust system. Action does not need to be taken by the trust system admins.

Since I tend to be very conservative when it comes to deciding if something is unethical, it sounds like TF gave someone .5 BTC because his banning mechanism and bot detection were inadequate, and now he's retaliating through the trust system. However, the OP was gaming the system (coinchat) and not following the rules, and other people would call that unethical. TF would go so far as to say that it's stealing! It's hard to determine if that makes someone trustworthy without a definition of trust that everyone agrees on.

Quote from: SaltySpitoon on September 30, 2013, 06:22:20 PM

Quote from: zackclark70 on September 30, 2013, 04:13:16 PM

this is unfair you are backing up tradefortress when he has provided 0 evidence that any coins were taken

I have started multiple scammer tag requests on here with evidence and you guys couldn't give a dam about it

No, that is not true at all. tspacepilot opened the thread up, asking what happened. Tradefortress explained it to him, and rather than tspacepilot saying, No I never took the coins, or no, it wasn't me, they said, no, I never saw the rules so its ok that I took the coin.

tspacepilot has admitted to chatting using a bot containing the name b0t rather than bot, and withdrawing about .5BTC rather than 1.5BTC, in light of that, how can you say there is no evidence?

Quote from: SaltySpitoon on September 30, 2013, 06:33:41 PM

Quote from: zackclark70 on September 30, 2013, 06:29:26 PM

there is no evidence that the whole amount was made by using a bot as the op has said he talked on there a lot and was playing with a bot so more than likely 80%+ of the 0.35BTC was him talking and 20% was the bot right now there is no evidence on how much of it was him and how much was the bot if anything he should only pay back what the bot earned him

Ok, assuming that the bot only made .01 BTC, that means the amount is still wrong, but the principal is the same. Tspacepilot went on TradeFortress' site, and used illegitimate ways to gain Bitcoins. Tradefortress' feedback would still be valid, although he should probably change it to .01BTC if there was evidence.

But really, what is the difference between scamming .01BTC, .02BTC, or .5BTC, either way they would still have the negative feedback from TF and the reason. The arguement here isn't whether or not tspacepilot abused the site and took Bitcoins from Tradefortress, its A) whether its ok to post it on Bitcointalk, a different site, and B) Whether tspacepilot is at fault for abusing the system.

From the hundreds of other cases I've seen, the answer is yes to both. The amount isn't a major factor.

Quote from: Mitchełł on September 30, 2013, 06:36:33 PM

The rules state that a bot has to have "bot" in it's name, not "b0t". This has been mentioned before. So using that bot would have given you BTC you didn't deserve, because you break the rules.

Quote

To bring us back to the point: everyone agrees that tf and I had no currency trade agreement and that he is attempting to use his influence on a third party site to punish me for his grudge about my use of coinchat.

For fuck sake, stop bringing this up. We already destroyed that argument. You don't HAVE to be in a currency trade agreement for him to decrease your trust rating. If he thinks you scammed him, he is allowed to, no matter if you guys ever made a trade.

God, why do I even bother talking to you. You only see your own truth and nothing else. I am out of here.

Quote from: Mitchełł on September 30, 2013, 10:12:33 PM

Quote from: tspacepilot on September 30, 2013, 10:08:13 PM

Quote from: bitcoininformation on September 30, 2013, 10:03:44 PM

Like I said before, I agree with TradeFortness on this point (you really should start reading). There is a lot of stuff I disagree with, but that doesn't matter now, because he has a point and I can see past my differences with him.

Have fun making up false facts and trying to get out of the corner you are stuck in.

Uh, was this supposed to a link? I thought you agreed that blind tf cheerleading wasn't helping and you planned to move along.

Nope and yep. But if you twist stuff I say, I will have to correct it.

Quote from: SaltySpitoon on September 30, 2013, 11:07:59 PM

I'm not saying I think you are a bad person, I'm just saying that in light of this case, I find your arguement invalid, and Tradefortress' allegations to be reasonable and believable based on the dialog between the two of you. I do believe that the amount may be incorrect, but the principal behind the thread/accusation, is that in my opinion, you exploited Coinchat and recieved Bitcoins that you should not have based on the site's rules in place. Your first comment was that you didn't know about the rules until after you were banned, to justify what happened. If someone gains unintentionally as you are claiming, as a result of ignorance of the rules, it would make sense that you apologize, and refund the amount in question. In my opinion, it is a valid claim that because TradeFortress suffered a financial loss due to the exploit, it is reasonable for him to make a mark on your trust until you two come to a resolution.

-snip-

It should also be noted that there was exactly one person backing you up (zackclark70) who did not seem to particularly like TF in the first place and was likely biased.

At this point, I am fairly certain that you scammed CoinChat out of some amount, and that like in September 2013 you are trying to weasel your way out of accepting responsibility. Except this time you are resorting to intimidation to get me to remove the negative.

Quote from: tspacepilot on April 20, 2015, 08:53:47 PM

In fact, it's pretty clear that you're doing yourself the favor of enjoying swinging your dick around because you wanted to find some way to get me kicked out of my campaign.

See below. This is not the first time that you have claimed that negative trust against you was some kind of personal vendetta against you. Sure we have exchanged heated words in the past after you started trolling me, but I can assure you that the reason for the negative does not have anything to do with personal feelings.

Quote from: tspacepilot on September 28, 2013, 06:37:38 AM

-snip-
Please, community members, let me know what's relevant here? As far as I can see, this is an angry bitcoin mogul who's feeling vindictive because I cashed out more than he wanted from his site which gives out free bitcoins for chatting. Now he's going to do his best to smear me on the internet anywhere he sees me, no matter the relevance.

(Note that in this post you admitted to withdrawing more then you should have.)

Quote from: tspacepilot on September 28, 2013, 03:43:27 PM

Ok, thanks for the feedback r3wt. I don't know if you're a moderator here. But now I understand that tradefortress and powerful people on this site can use the marketplace trust system to abuse people who they hold a grudge against for actions unrelated to bitcointalk. That is, marketplace trust and 'risked' BTC don't actually have to relate to any trade agreement on this marketplace. In fact, if what Tradefortress is doing to me is acceptable then it's clear that 'risked' BTC doesn't actually have to mean that you sent anyone that amount of BTC, just that you feel it's an amount you are owed according to reasons which you only have to justify to yourself.
-snip-

Quote from: tspacepilot on September 30, 2013, 06:58:35 AM

If you admit we did not engage in a currency trade then that is obviously tantamount to admitting that you are abusing the marketplace trust system because of an unrelated personal grudge. Tf, why don't you admit that it's time for you to make this right? Drop the false allegations against me and I will drop mine. I really don't think this is helping you or your reputation to keep holding out on charges that you have admitted are false.

This one is somewhat unrelated, but still somewhat related. You are admitting that you are making a false allegation, therefore there is no reason why anything you claim someone else is doing should be trusted.

Quote from: tspacepilot on September 30, 2013, 05:57:55 PM

Still this is missing the goddamn point. tf runs a site that gives away money for chatting. I chatted for hours and hours and received money. Tf decided he doesn't want me there anymore, fine. How does this give him any right to lie about me on bitcointalk.org? He is suggesting that he and I had some currency trade agreement and that I didn't follow through. That is false. I have entered into 0 marketplacd transactions and tf's grudges against former users should not be taken out by him on their trust ratings. If he is going to act like that, I think it's a strong reason to remove him from the default trust list so that at least new users can make up their mind for themselves about people he holds grudges against.

Again, he suggests variously that I am spamming or defrauding or stealing, sometimes 1.5 btc sometimes other amounts, all based on his whimsy and with 0 supporting evidence. How is any of this relevant to the marketplace trust? Even he admits it's not, that it's based on his personal grudge with me about how I used coinchat some months ago.

Quote from: tspacepilot on September 30, 2013, 06:33:00 PM

To bring us back to the point: everyone agrees that tf and I had no currency trade agreement and that he is attempting to use his influence on a third party site to punish me for his grudge about my use of coin chat.

Quote from: tspacepilot on April 20, 2015, 08:53:47 PM

As I said, you've succeeded, but only temporarily---once BadBear gets online and looks at this I have a feeling I'm either going to see that negative trust disappear because you delete it or because you're not on default trust anymore. I'm pretty sure that BadBear doesn't want someone like you taking his trust as a way to effect personal vendettas.

I don't get anything special in return for being in the default trust network, despite that this statement is clearly meant to be a threat. If BadBear decides that he wants to remove me from his trust list then that is his decision. I am not going to make a huge deal out of whatever decision he makes, although I don't think he will remove me for this.

I think it is fairly clear that you are a scammer, you are a spammer and that the trust rating is appropriate.

There are a good number of clearly shill accounts in this thread, including gamblebitcoin (who is a brand new account that happens to be taking your side), TerminatorXL (who is an alt of CozyLife who was banned for making shit posts and has written articles about his position against the sale of accounts on a site with no editorial integrity [lol]). Additionally neither LaudaM, nor erikalui is on my trust list and as a result their opinions are not considered without any facts/logical arguments to back them up. Vod simply said that I should not trust TF's word, which I do not.