Quote from: FirstAscent on October 01, 2013, 04:07:37 PM

It's important to understand the difference, and who and what environmentalists are. They're not just the conscious person who recycles bottles and cans and drives a Prius. And they're not just activists. Those two groups are the least important groups of environmentalists. The third group are those people who have a large set of knowledge on the subject of the environment. They may be scientists, professors, speakers, philanthropists, lobbyists, executives of conservation organizations, or, retired activists, now engaging in real projects, such as the rewilding of North America using GIS databases. They are field research specialists, urban planners, entomologists, climate scientists, architects, ecologists, writers, botanists, hydroponics researchers, and so on. They are people doing herd studies in Africa, people reintroducing the wolf into Yellowstone, researchers studying trophic cascades in the northwest, people engaging in coral reef studies, educated CEOs of particular clothing companies, researchers of island biogeography, individuals developing methods for sustainable salmon fishing, documentary filmmakers...

Agreed, all these professions you mention play important roles in environmentalism. I don't agree that the bottle can recyclers and activists are the least important. Recycling is vital for everyone. Some scientific research, even though professional ends up being useless, and some things activists do are important, such as getting on the news to raise awareness about an environmental issue.

Quote from: westkybitcoins on October 01, 2013, 06:13:35 PM

I'm speaking to matt608 of the opinions of people who think of environmental activists as kooks. Continuing to act in a manner that disregards their rights, property and views while claiming an educated high ground is only going to perpetuate, or worsen, ~~their~~ the activists' standing in society.

Quote from: westkybitcoins on October 01, 2013, 06:13:35 PM

For that reason, activists being more conscious of the impact that their attitudes and actions have would help. The "treehuggers" could acknowledge that should they get their way, they'll put people out of a job and make their life immediately worse, with nothing of real benefit gained within their lifetime, in the view of those impacted at least.

I'm certainly not in favour of deliberately doing things that violate rights such as property rights, unless there is good reason to do so, most activists I think would agree. For example, fracking. I don't know what your stance is on fracking but its been scientifically proven to poison ground water, pollute the air locally and release large amounts of green house gasses, as well as cause earthquakes, release radiation that was previously stored underground in the rocks, and permanently pollute huge amounts of water used in the hydraulic fracturing process.

Given these facts, many activists would say that setting up a fracking rig near someone's home violates their rights, because it physically attacks them. If someone was setting off a chemical weapon with these effects we would call it a terrorist attack. So an activist chaining themselves to the gate or blocking the road to the fracking site is well within their rights, because actually, the frackers are violating the rigts of the local people and the activists is defending their rights. If the system was working properly fracking would be illegal, as it is in many countries.

This is what I mean when I say the activists are often well educated and informed on the matter they are protesting agains. They know that whatever it is they are protesting against is a violation of rights, and they are prepared to violate 'lesser rights' in order to protect the more import basic rights, such as the right to clean drinking water, or the right to clean air.

If someone loses their job and their job was to destroy the local environment and make climate change more severe for the profit of massive corporations, it's a good thing that they lose their job.