Quote from: randomcloud on October 12, 2013, 01:39:07 AM

Quote from: FirstAscent on October 02, 2013, 01:10:52 AM

Actually, it is complicated. Let's pretend you know why they dislike environmentalists. Now, ask yourself this: do you dislike environmentalists? Regardless of your answer, answer why you like or dislike them. And when you arrive at the answer to why, you'll then have to confront your own lack of knowledge with regard to the subject of environmentalism itself to realize if your answer to "why" has any validity to it.

You're missing the point. You and other environmentalists want to convince other people to do what you want them to do. But you can't do that unless you understand why it is that they think the way they do and base your arguments around those reasons. Persuasion is all about what THEY think, not about what *you* know or what you'd like them to know. Just demanding that they educate themselves won't change a thing, they have criticisms, complaints and questions that *you* need to openly acknowledge and respond to. And you will have to if you ever expect to get anywhere in the environmentalist debate.

Let me put it this way: Since so many people feel that the actions you want them to take would disrupt or destroy their livelihoods or lower their standard of living, why not just buy them off? Pay loggers to not be loggers anymore -- since all they care about is having enough money to live off of for the rest of their lives, buying them off would remove their incentive for opposing you and they wouldn't be a problem anymore. For the conservative suburbanite who doesn't want his/her cushy lifestyle to be disrupted, provide means to preserve their way of life that don't affect the environment -- promote biodiesel or electric cars or something, create solutions that don't require them to live differently than they already do, and most importantly explain to these people how doing what you want them to do will benefit them financially.

If you do not listen to me you will not succeed, guaranteed.

Read my last post. And read the post which it discusses. And read the big post from me. You're the one not getting it.