Quote from: boomboom on March 31, 2018, 12:28:05 AM

Quote from: iluvbitcoins on March 30, 2018, 10:14:22 AM

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Trying to resolve the b1 debts doesn't look possible now, the only option to do that would be confiscating Risto's CK assets and distributing them to b1 creditors, but without Risto involved this won't be cool with many people, and IMO it's worse than putting the b1 debts in the too hard basket. Who has authority to do this? Some people have already made a good profit from CK, if they also hold b1 debts and would get more, some people will obviously complain that isn't fair because they haven't experienced any CK losses, and didn't feel the CK 'burn'.

Are you saying that distributing Ristos assets to people he ows money to won't be cool with many people but distributing his assets to the game will?

I'm saying we're all free to try anything now, if you suggest a plan to repay risto's debts that includes details to some of the concerns raised earlier, I will certainly consider it, what Loaf is proposing is detailed & possible to achieve, but it's not something I like exactly, but no outcome now is ideal, we're picking the best option, not an idealised 'solution' to a really difficult situation.

How are you proposing to deal with the clawback issue Loaf mentioned?

Simple.
Risto gifted someone 50BTC so we should 'clawback' that money since that's not a good spend?
Hell no.
That's moronic.

Risto is an individual with assets he used however he wanted.
If he gifted someone 50BTC, that's his money. No clawback should be made.

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If you want to claim the debts, let me tell you want anyone else would claim: the funds you got out of the game. That is called a clawback. So if you got 100 BTC out of the game, took out 50 BTC and were given 50 BTC extra by accident, were gifted 5k XMR to make a game token and never did it, or caught Risto's fat-fingering and got 5k XMR out of the game, guess what? Those funds need to be clawed back and shared with all affected parties!

And this focus on the B1/E1 debts ignores all users in the game who now own worthless game items. It doesn't matter if you have B1/E1 or just game currency (M) or even squirrel pelts! All of this is worth zero! You can't even get a few dollars worth of XMR into or out of the game as the only XMR depository (https://deposit.cryptokingdomgold.com) has been down for almost a month!

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Just saying 'we should use risto's accounts to pay his debts' isn't helpful without details, you have to get down to brass tacks, the devil is always in the details.

The guy who was owed 50btc but was paid twice, how do you deal with him?

The guy who was paid a 5k XMR bounty but didn't deliver, how do you deal with him?

What about E1 debts?

What about risto's excessive 'gift giving' when likely experiencing mental illness & drug issues?

etc etc

When I say it's not 'cool' what I mean is it's not simple, and not likely to get universal support e.g. if you agree with clawback suggestions then what are you proposing to do if those guys say 'No', they wont return those funds to be divided between all debt holders? It's a mine field man!!

Again, what Loaf is proposing is not going to get universal endorsement, and it's not the optimum outcome by any means, BUT, it's simple, possible to do, and someone is actually trying to do it!

Debt repayment is:
- not so simple when you think of the details
- not possible IF there needs to be clawback and some effected don't send funds back
- nobody is even working towards that goal for +6 months

Being a critic is easy, proposing a workable roadmap is always going to make some people pissed off.

If you agree with debt repayment and clawback, please say so, otherwise please state your proposal, but it needs to cover these difficult issues, and you might find what you put in the too hard basket is just as unpopular with some people as what Loaf is 'doing' i.e. he's actually trying to implement his plan, he's not a critic anymore.

edit, if you favor debt repayment but no clawback, please say so, that might be achievable, but likely to be just as unpopular as what Loaf is doing

You don't deal with them.
How do you deal with someone who got 50BTC? He already got them.
Risto sent it to him.
Not me, not you, not 'the game', not the B1, E1 holders.
Risto did.

The clawback is morally wrong.
It means you're supposed to lose money just by playing, no profit can be obtained in the game and must be distributed among B1/E1 holders, but they won't be able to profit either since if they made profit they'd suffer the clawback.

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ment is:
- not so simple when you think of the details
- not possible IF there needs to be clawback and some effected don't send funds back
- nobody is even working towards that goal for +6 months

There doesn't have to be a clawback.

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If you made money on CK during the depo time, that has to come back to the game and be shared by B1/E1 and game item holders.

No it doesn't.

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What I'm saying isn't complicated as some say, it's rather simple.
Extremely simple.

You have B1 and E1 debts.
Risto has 'M'.

Distribute 'M' to B1&E1 holders.
Sell his assets.
Distribute to B1&E1 holders.
That's it.
Simple as that.