Quote from: ToriAmos1963 on October 18, 2013, 05:02:26 PM

I should have listened to this post before placing an order.

Thanks for the acknowledgement.

Quote from: ToriAmos1963 on October 18, 2013, 05:02:26 PM

If you're thinking of ordering from these people, trying calling them to see if you can get an actual person on the phone. Then read a page or so from their forums. Then if you still think they will deliver on time or provide any customer service, go ahead and order.

Don't say that.

Say instead: Don't order from (read: give money to) BFL, under any circumstance, not now, not ever.

Latest development:

Quote from: Fjordbit on October 20, 2013, 02:51:48 AM

I've been trying to help my friend through this process, and it has hit a problem I haven't seen before. Paypal sided with my friend and said that BFL needed to refund the money.

BFL has marked his order as cancelled in their system. Now Paypal tried to get the money back to send to my friend, but there was no money in the account they were drawing on.

This is the letter that Paypal sent to my friend.

Quote

Hello *** ******,

The refund sent by Sonny Vleisides (office@butterflylabs.com) did not clear from the sender's bank. You have not received funds for this payment in your PayPal account.

Please contact Sonny Vleisides regarding this refund.

-----------------------------------
Refund details:
-----------------------------------

Amount: $****** USD
Sender: Sonny Vleisides
Sender's email: office@butterflylabs.com
Transaction ID: ********
Transaction date: Oct 11, 2013

Anyone have any ideas on where to go from here? He kind of feel like this is like issuing a bad check and thinks that there might be some kind of attorney general he could go to.

Butterfly Labs Inc. have claimed that Sonny Vleisides role is that of "VP of Product Development".

I believe that claim to be false or at best misleading. Likely false in everything but name.

I believe Sonny Vleisides is still the acting day-to-day general manager, the head of operations, the decision man, the chief executive.

By any measure other than by title.

See, this trick of appointing "the cleaning lady", or, as the case may be, some person in another country,
to positions of responsibility perhaps in exchange for some disproportionate compensation,
for signing a couple of documents every once in a while, happens to be another red flag.
It's the kind of thing scammers tend to do, and honest people tend to don't.

This email, from Paypal, if accurate, seems to show that that claim is, indeed, false.

I.e. it shows that the claim that Sonny Vleisides is acting VP of Product Development, is materially false.

Which, you know, one could suspect, what with him having no relevant background in electrical engineering or computer science.

As opposed to "a colorful background in offshore libertarianism", to borrow the words of his accomplice Josh Zerlan aka. Inaba aka. BFL_Josh.

Which turns out to mean, in plain english, you tell people lies to get them to send you money, you defraud people with false promises of great wealth and riches.

I congratulate the perpetrators, and extend my condolences to the victims of this... artful operation.

Sonny Vleisides has pulled it off again.

I hope this thread saved someone.

PS:

To the people who paid about a million dollars (at todays valuation) for an ASIC minirig on the night of June 23 2012:

Please try to find out what happened to your money. What fraction was converted into cash. How much of it was retained in BTC.

Do it before they "run out of cash reserves" and shut down / file for bankruptcy / run for the hills, with your money.

Where is it today? How much can be recovered?

You've been swindled, you've been abused, you've been lied to repeatedly.

That just ain't right.

It's time to wake up, get angry and go to court.