Quote from: theonewhowaskazu on October 22, 2013, 11:01:00 PM

Quote from: the joint on October 22, 2013, 10:55:17 PM

Quote from: theonewhowaskazu on October 22, 2013, 08:08:37 PM

Quote from: dancupid on September 08, 2013, 06:32:50 PM

Let me start by making it clear that I am an atheist.

The problem I have with the atheist agenda is that is stops at 'the non existence of God' - the same logic is not applied consistently to the whole of the human condition.

If I examine my life and use this same 'spaghetti monster' logic, I am drawn to the same conclusions about all my actions and activities - they are all as equally pointless and irrational as worshiping God.

If I rationally examine my sense of self I realize that it is just a genetic innovation - it encourages self preservation - genetic selfishness creates a genetically induced illusion of self worth.

My desire to survive is itself as delusional as a belief in God - pain and my fear of pain are a genetically induced survival mechanism I am in thrall to.

If I believe in God and survive then it is no different to not believing in God and surviving - nature will select for survival.

But my actual survival is meaningless whether I believe in God or otherwise.

This is the only conclusion that can be logically formed from a real examination of life.

Atheism is merely another tribal display - a peacock's tail trying to attract a mate through a verbal display of intelligence.

Just what the heck. I don't even know what this is supposed to mean. How is attempting to pleasure oneself and keep oneself from pain - something all living beings are naturally wired to do - the same as believing in a made-up god? What exactly is your delusion in wanting to survive? I have no idea what the rest of this thread is about, but the randommest post of all is the one smack at the beginning.

I've bolded one of his primary assumptions, and this is generally a key atheist assumption in general. The Universe is viewed as chaotic and devoid of all meaning outside of our individual opinions, and this is because it is assumed there is no god or Universal consciousness that self-evidently makes everything meaningful. He has simply chosen to be consistent based upon his assumption in concluding that his survival is meaningless. If you believe his assumption, you would also reach the same conclusion.

There's nothing at all wrong with wanting to survive. But if you really think the Universe is inherently meaningless, then you must realize your assumption leads to the conclusion that there's no logical reason why it's better for you or for anything else to survive. There's no logical reason to do 'good' things for yourself or anyone else, and there's no reason why it wouldn't be just fine to kill yourself. Under this view, there is no such thing as objective morality, and thus no objective good and bad. It's all about opinions and that's all it ever could be about. The fact that you're "wired" to avoid pain doesn't imply it's good to do so.

The fact that atheists still, on the whole, want good things to happen to themselves and to other people is an often-overlooked leap of faith. Specifically, it's having faith that 'goodness' not only exists, but that it perpetuates itself. But again, carrying the assumption that the Universe is inherently meaningless, there's no logical reason to want good things to happen to yourself or others.

Ok, if the universe is devoid of meaning, then what isn't devoid of meaning?

Stuff matters to me, when it affects me, because I care about me, because I have been trained to care about me, because whenever I care about me I experience pleasure, and whenever I don't care about me then I experience pain. Since the universe affects me, it matters to me, regardless of how chaotic it is; thus, it is meaningful to me (and all other human beings).

I don't believe the Universe is devoid of meaning.