Quote from: terrapinflyer on December 11, 2013, 08:37:09 AM

Quote from: sayulita on October 29, 2013, 09:57:22 PM

Quote from: MAINMAN on October 29, 2013, 05:38:31 PM

I see you guys have changed your F.A.Q.

Before you stated that the bit-coin rate is determined(based on Mt.Gox's) by the time-stamp on the receipt received when the cash deposit was made.

Now, The FAQ now reads: bit-coin rate is determined as at the time the BIT-COIN is being released to the buyer!

Man this is very problematic and VERY vague. Angry

Which means you can literally sit on one's $ for up to 24 hours and watch what happens with the fluctuations before sending the BTC?

CATEGORICALLY, when a cash DEPOSIT or any cash payment was made...in normal business terms, it should signal the instantaneous disbursement or render of service.

Point is, YOU CANNOT DO that MAN!

Time-stamp as at when cash was made to the account should be norm. It's how everyone else does.

I apologize if you are unhappy with the change but let's review this.

We changed the terms, yes, but as you pointed out, the FAQ section was changed to advise clients of that change.

I don't understand how you find this to be "vague". It is about as clear as it can be stated.

As far as your comment about sitting on a client's money for up to 24 hours....99% of fundings occur in under 60 minutes.

In addition to the fact that fundings typically occur within minutes, there is zero benefit for Bitcoin-Brokers to try to time the pricing of your bitcoin. The Bitcoin-Broker fee is 2% regardless what prices do. It makes zero difference to Bitcoin-Brokers whether prices are moving up or down because the profit is always the same.

As far as your comment of "YOU CANNOT DO that MAN!"

Respectfully, "yes I can".

Most of the bitcoin is sourced from the actual exchanges when it is sold to you, so the pricing needs to be set in this manner. Otherwise the following scenario could occur:

1)Your deposit is made.
2)By the time you submit the documents as proof of deposit, prices have risen substantially.
3)The seller would be forced into selling you bitcoin at a loss. Obviously this cannot occur, otherwise the sellers will not allow you to use their bank account to buy your bitcoin in the first place. They need to be guaranteed a profit to offer you this service.

That's why you:

1)Make the deposit
2)Submit proof that deposit has been made
3)Deposit is verified by Bitcoin-Brokers, and then sent off to seller as proof.
4)Seller logs into online banking and verifies deposit is actually in their bank account.
5)Seller logs into their account at an exchange and purchases your bitcoin for you.

There are some sellers who sell their bitcoin without sourcing from the exchanges. These sellers have acquired their bitcoin through mining, or some other enterprise which nets them bitcoin which needs to be sold off. These types of sellers are less concerned with the intra-day movements of bitcoin prices, and as a result they set their prices according to the timestamp on your deposit receipt (which is what it sounds like you are looking for in a transaction).

I would suggest on your next order, that you request a seller who prices their bitcoin based on the timestamp, as compared to one who sources from an exchange. If there is supply available through one of these sellers, I will be happy to offer you these instead since it really makes zero difference to Bitcoin-Brokers which seller is chosen.

Hopefully, this offers you a better understanding as to why it has to happen this way.

Quote from: sayulita on December 10, 2013, 05:24:11 PM

Here is a quick explanation as to how things work here:

The bitcoins that we sell you have been placed for sale on our site by individual sellers. The sellers provide us with their personal banking information. Bitcoin-Brokers handles the sale of the bitcoins, handles the communications and directs buyers to make cash deposits into these seller's bank accounts.

By setting it up this way, Bitcoin-Brokers never touches the cash. The buyer simply pays the seller directly.

That's it. There is no sign up, or registration. We do not collect any ID.

Sellers have their bitcoin priced in relation to specific exchanges (such as MtGox +4%, or Bitstamp +8%). This is always based on current (last) price on the specific exchanges.

When ordering I need to know three things from you:

1)How much in dollars would you like to purchase?
2)What bank would you like to pay at? (currently bitcoin is available most frequently at Bank of America, Chase, Wells Fargo)
3)What is your bitcoin wallet address?

Once I have that information I can prepare a quote for you.

After you have made a cash-only deposit into the seller's bank account you will need to collect proof of the deposit you have just made. You will need to obtain the deposit receipt, as well as the business card of the teller.

Those two items will need to be photographed and then uploaded as an attachment to the same ticket used to request the quote. Once that is forwarded to Bitcoin-Brokers, I inspect it, and then forward it to the seller as confirmation of the deposit. It is at this time that I also make a request from the seller to release the escrowed bitcoin. Once this authorization is granted, I transfer your bitcoin to your wallet.

The seller has 24 hours to authorize a release of the bitcoin, though 99% of the time the bitcoin is authorized to be released much sooner than 24 hours.

On the off chance that the seller fails to reply to the request, Bitcoin-Brokers already has the bitcoin escrowed in our wallet, and we will simply complete the transfer of the bitcoin to you on behalf of the seller. You are always guaranteed to get your bitcoin when you buy them at Bitcoin-Brokers.

Anyways, I hope that clears that up for you.

Sellers who are permitted to work with Bitcoin-Brokers do everything within their power not to blow their opportunity. I have a list with the names and emails of sellers who are waiting to be given permission to have their bitcoin sold through the site. This list is a country mile long.

Now with that being the case, as I said, we already hold the bitcoin in escrow from the seller, so the seller NEVER has the ability to scam a buyer.

For the sake of argument, and to further entertain your question, let's assume a very shorted sighted seller makes their way onto the Bitcoin-Brokers framework and tries to pull off the scam you described.

The buyer has a bank issued bank receipt reflecting the deposit into the seller's account. The seller would have to explain to me why the buyer is holding the receipt.

Allow your mind to wander down the imaginary road of what would happen next. It doesnt take a genius to quickly figure out that seller has ZERO chance of scamming the buyer.

That is why after over 3000 different transactions since the company started in June of this year that there has been ZERO fraud, and you guessed it.......ZERO attempts at fraud.

Its a bulletproof framework at Bitcoin-Brokers where both the buyer and the seller are 100% protected on EVERY transaction.

These two statements contradict each other. I am very confused by your escrow system now. Are you holding the coins when you make the quote or are you asking the seller to send the coins to escrow after the deposit is confirmed? I am not trying to smear your service I have used it many times and have never had a problem. I am simply trying to understand the system.

Respectfully, these statements do NOT contradict each other whatsoever.

Bitcoin-Brokers ALWAYS holds the seller's bitcoin in escrow BEFORE ever instructing the buyer to deposit cash into the seller's bank account.

Bitcoin-Brokers will NEVER instruct a buyer to make a deposit into a seller's bank account unless we already have full control over the seller's bitcoin.

This is how we are always able to guarantee to the buyer that they will always receive their bitcoin after depositing cash into the seller's bank account.