Quote from: iCEBREAKER on October 29, 2013, 11:08:14 PM

Quote from: Ytterbium on October 29, 2013, 10:52:55 PM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on October 29, 2013, 09:23:53 PM

Quote from: cedivad on October 29, 2013, 08:26:01 PM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on October 29, 2013, 08:22:13 PM

Did you have Dec 31 in your ToS?

I did.

I think we're done here! Cool

Except for the whole "US law requiring a refund" thing. Are you retarded or something? Illegal terms of sale aren't enforceable.

It doesn't matter if HF delivers in the middle of November like they say, you'll never ROI. It's completely worth it to try for a refund before they deliver. Unless you like burning your money.

You really should learn the diff between an FTC rule and an actual law before playing Intarnet Lawyar.

There is no rule (much less a law) guaranteeing ASIC purchasers must ROI in BTC by a certain date.

The guaranteed delivery date of Dec 31 is clear as glass and totally unambiguous.

There is nothing illegal in HashFast's terms of sale.

Why don't you give cedivad some Bitcoins to waste on a good lawyer, who will tell you the exact same thing I just did?

Better yet, just send the BTC to me and call it a day! Cheesy

I see you're in agreement with BFL josh about how refunds work.

Quote from: Inaba on October 25, 2013, 06:38:12 AM

Quote from: Cluster2k on October 25, 2013, 06:03:22 AM

Quote from: erk on October 25, 2013, 01:45:49 AM

And what would be the grounds of this civil suit? A failure to supply the goods that were sold? Doesn't seem so, BFL are churning though their pre-orders, probably about only 25% of the speed they should be, but the bottom line is they are still getting though them. So I am curious as to what is the legal angle here you are claiming? Yes I know in the US you can sue for anything you can possibly think of in your wildest dreams, but lets keep it sensible.

You are correct that BFL is shipping products to customers. BFL also never made predictions about being ready to ship products to end consumers in October 2012, November 2012, December 2012, January, February (swarm of locusts), March and April. Those predictions about imminent shipping had no impact at all on potential customers deciding to order units that were time sensitive in their use. BFL also never advertised a 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 production mix that offered customers ordering that day to get units as they were produced.

Everyone loves a car analogy. If you ordered a new car from a dealership that took your money on the day of order and then promised delivery within a week, but instead strung out the delivery to many months while the competition started to offer better deals, would you grin and bear it? The dealership would also make you sign a statement that all sales are final and you just have to be patient and wait.

I don't have an open BFL order and will never make another.

To take your car analogy further, the dealer offered to refund your purchase price up until the time they actually started to manufacture your car. So... if you "grin an bear it" you did it of your own volition, since you could easily have walked away at any time. Yes, BFL was late. I've apologized for that numerous times. But the fact of the matter is, people could have elected to get a refund at any time up until we started to manufacture products in bulk and started to spend the pre-order money on product manufacturing.

Quote from: dropt on October 25, 2013, 06:08:29 AM

Quote from: Vlad2Vlad on October 25, 2013, 02:46:19 AM

How about holding people money against their will - extortion. How about the millions lost by people as their money was locked up and they could not get a refund to buy ASICS which were shipping at the time.

There are lots of grounds for a civil suit - but it's the criminal I'm after. And the awesome thing about federal charges and federal courts is that the proof doesn't have to be beyond a shadow of a doubt. The burden of proof is low enough that I think a conviction is possible for these thieving crooks.

Be that as it may, you're most likely never going to see Josh or Sonny behind bars. They're protected by the corporation.

You neglected to mention the fact that nothing illegal has transpired, either... but, we all know you can't tell the truth and are a consumate liar and troll, so that's not really surprising that you'd leave a relevant fact like that out.

Anyone claiming that HashFast is in the right denying refunds is effectively defending BFL.
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The guaranteed delivery date of Dec 31 is clear as glass and totally unambiguous.

Also clear and unambiguous. If you want to cancel your order before shipment, for any reason, you have the right to do so.

Btw, how much money have you sunk into icedrill Mr. "Always bet on Ice"? You're just as screwed as everyone else. Why are you people lining up to let HF burn your money? You're the ones getting screwed here.

All you did was fund HF's NRE so that they'll have a source of incredibly cheap ICs to mine with, despite the fact that they knew all along you would never make a profit, while they will make a fortune, just like Yifu and bitsyncom, and of course BFL.

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on October 29, 2013, 11:08:14 PM

Why don't you give cedivad some Bitcoins to waste on a good lawyer, who will tell you the exact same thing I just did?

Better yet, just send the BTC to me and call it a day! Cheesy

Because I'm not a hashfast customer, I called them on their bullshit pretty much immediately.

Besides, it's hard to see how a lawyer could be a bigger waste of BTC then icedrill.ASIC shares

Always Bet on ICE... indeed. Hahaha