Quote from: th3joker on November 05, 2013, 12:35:52 AM

PayPal refused me a refund, usual 45 days rubbish, I did a chargeback for my first order and the credit card company put the money straight back into my account within about 5 days.

5 November 2013

I also did a chargeback through my bank some weeks back. I would like to toss in the following additional info:

-- The bank immediately credited my account, but they made it clear that this was a courtesy and that the credit is not final until the accused seller responds. In my case, they could take as long as two billing periods to respond.

-- When I went to Paypal two weeks later and checked the case status (cases were automatically opened when the chargeback occurred), the Paypal status showed "In review."

In other words, it may look like I have got the money but it is not official, Paypal is sitting on their hands "reviewing" the case, and it could be as long as two months until I know if I really have my money back.

In other world news (film at 11):

I also filed complaints with the FTC, the Kansas City BBB, the Kansas Attorney General's office, and the Johnson County District Attorney. No response on any of those yet.

I have been down the small claims court path in the past, and my own experience is that it is much easier to sue the credit card company under FTC "claims and defenses" than it is to sue the seller. In this case it is not clear to me whether the seller is Paypal or BFL, since the credit card transaction was paid to Paypal and not BFL. Perhaps someone with more legal knowledge can clear that up.

If the seller is Paypal, they have legal staff who do their utmost to avoid paying (though there is a wealth of info about how to sue Paypal and win; google it).

If the seller is BFL, collecting on the judgement could be extremely difficult, since the judgement would have to be exported to Kansas and sent to collections there -- and it is not clear that BFL has a financial leg to file a lien against.

If you have to sue your credit card company or Paypal, never sign a "general release." This frees them from any obligations to you whether past, present or future. Tell them you will sign a specific release. And don't sign any confidentiality agreements. If you win a judgement, you are in the right and they must pay, and cannot put conditions on that payment.

Update 7 Nov 2013

The Paypal status on the chargebacks changed from "In review" to "Closed." There was no direct indication of whether it was closed by accepting or rejecting the chargeback. After clicking around a bit, clicking on the "Closed" status produced "There was insufficient evidence to dispute the chargeback", which I take to mean "He's right but we don't like to admit it."

I can imagine the happiness at Paypal HQ when it becomes general knowledge among BFL customers that Paypal actually is eating BFL chargebacks. Then the chargebacks will really start rolling in. It would be interesting to know how Paypal will try to get that money back from BFL. Well, better them doing it than me.

Addendum: I just checked the order status at BFL, and both of them show "canceled." (sic). So they do actually know the word, even if they can't spell it.