Quote from: belphegory on April 20, 2018, 07:51:07 PM

Quote from: BADecker on April 19, 2018, 10:41:34 PM

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My delusions might be wrong and irreversible

I'm glad you acknowledge that. Just carry on in that line of thinking. Expand it, feed it...the truth will set you free.

Why are you focusing on my delusions? You know nothing about them. And, they aren't part of this thread.

Quote from: belphegory on April 20, 2018, 07:51:07 PM

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but the fact that science proves that God exists isn't one of them.

Ah right...now this is a problem......what FACT exactly? Your belief in something does not make anything TRUE.

That's the point, and I explained it already. Your belief against something doesn't make your belief true. Again, the example is your belief in Big Bang. You believe it is true because your want to, or because you like believing other people who say it is true. You don't know BB is true because you don't understand the math. Believing it doesn't make it true.

Quote from: belphegory on April 20, 2018, 07:51:07 PM

EG: I could BELIEVE the distance to Jupiter is 300 million kilometers away....I could believe this so strongly I would testify under oath....it still does not make it TRUE when the actual distance is 588 million kilometers. Don't you want to believe in things that are TRUE? Don't you think believing things that are TRUE would be more beneficial as opposed to things that you would like to be true....but still aren't?

Same with the scientific proof for the existence of God. If you don't understand the proof - be it for or against - all you have is a belief. It seems that you and Astargath don't understand the proof for the existence of God, because you don't understand your own proof against the existence of God enough to explain it. Both of you are entirely talking religion. So, it is religion for you, but for those who understand, it is knowledge.

Quote from: belphegory on April 20, 2018, 07:51:07 PM

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The fact that God exists isn't religion.

Again, your beliefs are presupposed here.

No. It is your beliefs, because you are the one talking about belief without showing proof for what you say.

Quote from: belphegory on April 20, 2018, 07:51:07 PM

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Religion is something that we don't really know, but have to take on faith or trust. Since I know that God exists, scientifically,

You have just admitted that having religion means that you don't know....but yet are stating....(as a fact that cannot be verified by anyone else) that YOU know god exists....and scientifically at that...wow did you find something that can be proven, demonstrable, quantifiable, testable and repeatable that thousands of other scientific people have somehow missed???

How do you know that it has not been verified by anyone else? Before the apple hit Isaac Newton on the head, there might not have been any theories for gravity. If Newton was the first, he was the first. There has to be a first, if it exists.

What does having a religion or not, have to do with the fact that God exists? It is simply a religion for you due to your unwillingness or inability to understand the proof. Since I understand the proof, and can explain it, and have explained it, it is not a religion for me. Just because I have certain religious beliefs, does not mean that they include the things I have factual knowledge of. Same for you.

Quote from: belphegory on April 20, 2018, 07:51:07 PM

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it is you who are including yourself in potential non-facts, which you call a religion because you don't understand the science involved. So it isn't my religion. It's yours.

This makes no sense. Religion = faith. Science = facts. Religion = worshipping and giving thanks to an imaginary being for imaginary deeds. Science = not worshipping gravity cos facts state it is F = Gm1m2/r2.

Faith is all inclusive, because we all live by faith. This means we all have religion.

Science theory and hypotheses are not always facts. So science is not always facts.

There are formal religions that do not include a being to be worshiped. Buddhism is one example. Another example is the faith that we all live by all the time, as I stated in the paragraph above this one.

LOL. People know that gravity exists because it is around them all the time. They use it everyday. Scientific theories and formulas for gravity may or may not have anything to do with the fact of gravity. Gravity, being fact, doesn't necessarily have anything to do with science. Why? Because gravity was known to exist long before science came along. When you talk about gravity here, your density is starting to match that of notbatman in the FE thread.

Quote from: belphegory on April 20, 2018, 07:51:07 PM

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My authority over you is close to nothing. If you spit on it, and refuse it, then you must be accepting, or at least inviting, greater authority over you.

Actually not. Im rejecting the very idea....the thought...the inkling of an idea.

The fact that you respond to my posts is allowing a little of my authority over you. Now you are inviting more. Why do you immerse yourself in things that you detest so much? You are submersing yourself in my authority and continuing to ask for more.

Quote from: belphegory on April 20, 2018, 07:51:07 PM

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My God is the God of the universe. Are you trying to push yourself out of the universe? Just because you don't know that He owns you, doesn't mean He doesn't.

Yet again...presupposing YOUR beliefs. Clearly my universe which I am currently existing in is different to your universe, which seems to have no room for you, as its taken up by an egomaniacal, pompous windbag.....who has no self esteem and relies on everyone else telling him how great he is.

Actually, this might be true. There is some interpretation of parallel universe theory that suggests that spiritually speaking, we might all be in our own universe. But that concept is way beyond anything that this forum is capable of handling, and certainly this thread.

Quote from: belphegory on April 20, 2018, 07:51:07 PM

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Just because you write on a napkin "the Flying Spaghetti Monster owns everything in the universe. Its written...therefore it must be true," doesn't mean that it is true

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Pot calling the kettle black much???

Well, do you have scientific proof for it? I mean, can you show the scientific proof? Showing it doesn't mean I will understand it. But if you literally have proof for it, the least you could do is show the proof as I have shown the proof for the existence of God.

Quote from: belphegory on April 20, 2018, 07:51:07 PM

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For example. You might think that you know that Big Bang is real. But if you don't understand BB math, you really only believe, and BB is really only a religion for you. Someone else who knows the math might know that BB could actually be real.

Technically i'm agnostic on the idea of a big bang.....so moot point.

However, BB was only an example. If there is any point in science that has been proven to you, based on someone telling it to you, or on your reading of it in a book or somewhere, without the understanding on your part of how it is a fact, then it is part of your religion... a religious belief for you... even if it is believed by millions of others, and known by still other millions.

Quote from: belphegory on April 20, 2018, 07:51:07 PM

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The point is, you are talking religion in this science thread.

And yet your the one throwing science as a religion? Contradiction much?

Science is NOT a religion. Science can back its statements with FACTS. Religion on the other hand...cannot.

Yes I might be taking it on faith that things I have not personally seen and run tests on exist in science, like the diameter of the Sun? I'm taking it on faith that the distance to Jupiter is 588 million kilometers...but other people have run tests....and they have confirmed it using science and scientific methods with equipment
that can verify it....over and over again.

People at church believe the priest or minister when they are told things about the particular religion. They often don't know if what they are being told is true or not. Yet they believe (or not). If you don't have and understand the proof for things like the diameter of the sun, or the distance to Jupiter, but have only believed what others have said, then it is all religion for you, even if it is 100% true and factual.

Quote from: belphegory on April 20, 2018, 07:51:07 PM

Scientific proof for god...... still none.

The scientific proof for the existence of God might not be understandable to you, just like other scientific fact might not be understandable to you. We are in a forum. So, you have the right to state that you don't believe something, even in a "proof" thread. But if you are absolutely sure, show the proof. At least Astargath attempts to show the proof that God doesn't exist a little, or that the proof that He exists is faulty. All you do is blab religion.

Cool