Quote from: DrHaribo on July 11, 2011, 11:39:53 PM

Quote from: teukon on July 11, 2011, 07:38:47 PM

I currently solo mine but would be interested in joining this. Unfortunately I see that the payout method is proportional which is a deal breaker for me. Any plans to implement something fairer (like score based shares or shares from last 5 minutes only)?

I assume it's a deal breaker because of pool hopping?

I don't have any specific plans, but I have been thinking about the different payout methods. I realize it will be tough to prevent pool hopping with proportional payouts. Delaying stats may work for DeepBit, but it would not work as well for a smaller pool (or stats would have to be delayed much longer).

I think paying for last N minutes is vulnerable to pool hopping too. The more shares were submitted the last N minutes, the less they are worth. And the higher the pool hash rate the better the chance of creating a block. If many shares were submitted and hash rate then dropped: time to pool hop. You don't want to work alone and then give all the money away. If few shares were submitted compared to the current hash rate: time to come back again. Someone else is likely to find a block and you want to get paid.

Maybe "pay per last N shares" is the most fair. If pool hash rate drops there is less chance someone else finds a block that you get paid for. But also you will take over more and more of the N shares at an increased rate, "pushing out" the shares of other users.

Interesting charts on different payout methods: http://eligius.st/~luke-jr/samples/800MH/

I'm open to suggestions.

You're right, there does seem to be a different kind of hopping problem with PPLNminutes but at least it is very much to the pool's benefit (I guess pool hoppers would try to keep the mining volume constant). I'm new to pool mining theory and PPLNS is a new discovery for me; it looks better than PPLNM but would be interested to know more about the weaknesses of these payout methods and why the more obviously faulty proportional is preferred.

Also, it strikes me that without any information about the pool at all it is still quite possible to pool hop using the block chain. Simply mine with the pool for 5 minutes after each block discovery and mine solo the rest of the time. You are only making money on the blocks which the pool itself finds but you're doing better than 100% nonetheless. This would be particularly effective against a large pool and the only way I could see them blocking it is penalising you in some way for disconnecting from the pool, or detecting your behaviour and banning you. Both methods defeat the only advantage to proportional that I see: it's simplicity.

Are there other advantages to proportional aside from simplicity (versus PPLNS)? I feel there is something very wrong if this is the only advantage to proportional payouts. Another payout method could be to pay an equal chunk to each user reguardless of their hash rate and this would have the advantage of being even more simple than proportional but very little else going for it. Just as with proportional, people would take advantage, others would complain, and pool operators would be trying to block/ban people who took advantage and/or hide information to make their pool more attractive to 'honest' miners, all for some algorithmic simplicity.

Sorry, I went a bit far there. Which pools do you know which do PPLNS? To me this is more attractive than +5% to be honest.