Quote from: iCEBREAKER on November 15, 2013, 01:25:32 AM

HashFast went from logical design, to physical design, to complete tape-out in record-breaking time. That speaks to their engineering and managerial prowess.

I'm not denying they did it real fast. they're a damn good team and they were extremely efficient and aggressive. but to say record breaking implies they did it faster than knc, and i don't think thats the case. i think knc is definitely the record holder and neither hashfast (nor cointerra) will break that record!

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You don't know that cointerra will deliver "in the same month" as HashFast. Stop assuming facts not in evidence!

and you, equally don't know that they won't deliver in the same month. but right now, their announced dates, are within a couple of weeks of each other!

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Sure, hashfast dropped the ball on the substrates. That sucks but they are going to make it right. Botching a tape-out is a far worse unforced error.

hashfast has yet to say if and how they're going to 'make it right'. what will they do? refund everyone more than half of what they paid... to bring it into line with a december delivery $/gh price ? e.g. to have charged the same as what cointerra charged per $/gh for december orders?

and i agree that botching a tape-out is very annoying. but if you can pay extra to everyone in the rest of the timeline to bring it back onto schedule and deliver when customers are expecting it, then no harm done! Customers just care that they will get what they ordered, in a timely fashion. they don't care what the company has to do to get there.

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I'd rather be a day-one customer of an engineering-focused company like hashfast than a marketing-driven one like cointerra.

they're both engineering driven companies. i don't know a single marketing person inside cointerra. they don't even employ one, as far as i know. they're just engineers, and cust support. not a single marketing person. they don't even employ someone of john (of hf)'s talents... though i think they should!

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Again you assume facts not in evidence. Cointerra's chip is 60 days away, not running at 1 GHz.

you have no evidence to the contrary either. you don't KNOW cointerra's chip is more than 60 days away and you don't KNOW that its not 1 Ghz either!? you're just trolling. And yes, if you want to bet on it, i am confident enough on both of those facts that i would happily take your bet of both those statements exactly as you stated. that cointerra WILL have chips within 60 days of tapeout, and that it WILL clock at 1 Ghz or over.

But i think you're missing a big point. the customers don't care whether any chip is a particular clockspeed. they care about delivery date, performance, price and power consumption... hashfast's chip doesn't run at 1 ghz (i think it barely runs at half that speed... and it doesnt need to). just as long as it delivers more than 400 GH, thats what everyone cares about.

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We know from their PR Hashfast is very far along with their 2nd chip. But unlike Cointerra, they didn't fire their incompetent original design team and bring in new guys to design it.

So you're saying that hashfast's team for their 2nd chip will be identical to the 1st chip are you? Do you think thats likely? Is it even relevant? i mean, any change in architecture between chip 1 and chip 2 will probably require a different team with different skills. i think that in almost every asic company's case, the team makeup between different generations of chips will be slightly, and possibly even wildly different depending on what they want to do different next time around. You can be pretty sure that whoever contributed to the delay in tape-out at cointerra probably won't be flavour of the month next time around.

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Ask AMD why they decided GF's 28nm process isn't good enough for them, but TSMC's is (GF invested in the wrong 28nm tech years ago and TSMC didn't).

no one cares whether gf is a better company than tsmc. we all know tsmc is better. its 4 times bigger, for a start. but gf isn't a 'botch job' company either. it has more than $4 billion in revenues and is the number 2 silicon company... and they're both fully capable of churning out bucket loads of 28nm silicon, and if anything, making a deal with the number 2 company may get you more tlc than a deal with the number 1 company... as the number 2 is hungrier for the business and probably more willing to accommodate special requests (like expediting silicon production when its needed!)

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Just like Cointerra and Open Silicon, Global Foundries are amateurs compared to the 28nm pros at TSMC.

Now you're just trolling again. none of those companies are amateurs. What a dumbass thing to say. And do you think it makes hashfast and uniquify look like saints that they dropped the ball on the substrate thing? no! everyone makes mistakes. If you measure companies just by their mistakes, they all look like amateurs. The final proof... Will cointerras systems be on time, deliver the performance, and consume the power that they said?... and we shall see. And in January, when certainly both hashfast and cointerra will have systems in the wild, the 'customers' will be able to see whether they both delivered what they promised and whether they received 'good value'. hopefully they both will! everyone's a winner. You don't need one to fail to make the other one good. Both companies are good.. both companies are making good products and as far as I'm aware, both companies have sold out of the first two or more batches, so they both must have plenty of customers as well! All they've got to do now is keep them happy!

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The substrate delay is a one time thing, completely unrelated to TSMC's unparalleled ability to pump out 28nm wafers by the truckload.

Cointerra and HashFast are both a month behind, but HashFast started with a two month lead.

Hashfast started with a two month lead alright. And lost it. Yes, cointerra is a month behind. But hashfast is now more than a month behind.. nearly two (promised date was late oct). But cointerra had the benefit of telling people a delivery date that had some slack in it, whereas hashfast was very optimistic. They had a HUUUUGE lead, now disappeared. bet cointerra are kicking themselves cos they could've come out ahead if they hadn't also had a delay!

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You don't know WTF you're talking about. HashFast's chips are three times more productive per sq. mm than KnC's.

yet again, you mis-understand the customer. they don't care whose chips do what. they care about systems and performance.. and price.. and delivery dates. knc doesn't sell chips... they sell systems. and their system is a 550 GH today (and tomorrow, i believe its going to be faster.. 700? 750?). hashfast's equivalently priced system is 400 GH today (and maybe 500 when oc'd). price per GH - for the system - is what matters most, and availability.. and is regardless of how many dies or chips or whatever. its a system to system comparison that customers most care about. And there are other competitors too with completely different architectures like Bitmine, AMT, and Black Arrow... all of whom will now be in the marketplace in a similar-ish timeframe to hashfast and cointerra.

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It's funny when you decry my post as unworthy, then write a giant wall of text strenuously attempting to debunk it. Grin

You, Icebreaker, are just a troll. You'll say ANYTHING, absolutely ANYTHING... to try and knock a competitor. Well, I'm trying to be pragmatic. I will defend cointerra against your trolling (and i also defend hashfast against other people's trolling.. and knc too). I try to stick up for whoever is being unfairly maligned. just trying to keep it real. you're just a troll.