Quote from: hawkeye on November 21, 2013, 10:45:33 AM

Quote from: Hawker on November 21, 2013, 10:15:02 AM

Yes - you do really need the law and the police to stop people being killed and robbed. Couple of years ago in London there was a riot and the Police let it be known that they would only be protecting life - not property. Within 6 hours, people were being burnt out of their homes, there was widespread looting and people were beaten to death in the streets within 48 hours.

That's the law of nature. Our legal systems are a collective effort to have something better.

If you had a company in the marketplace providing protection, and they said they weren't going to fulfil their contractual obligations to protect property, do you know what would happen? They would lose customers and go out of business. Pity that the Police have no such obligations toward us and can pick and choose what and who they want to protect, isn't it? It isn't for nothing that people say you have to be either rich or important to get justice in our society. They are the only people the Police really care about because they are the ones who can kick up a stink through using either their money or friends in high places. The rest of us? we pay whether we like it or not. Whether we get good service or not.

So when you see police out in force to protect the politicians, it's not such a surprise when you realise that they are the police's true customers. The ones who pay their salaries. They mostly don't care about the rest of us.

The important thing here is that we agree a police force is needed. Your debate is as to the best way to provide it. I've gone though this with myrkul last year and not really sure whats to be gained by going through it again but here goes.

I live in Berkshire in a mixed Muslim/other area. A large part of the Muslim community believes that alcohol should be illegal and that female circumcision should be legal. A large part of the "other" group believes that alcohol should be legal under certain circumstances and that female genital mutilation should be illegal. I don't like the idea of free competing companies being able to go to the Muslim community and "protect" men who burn alcohol shops and "protect" women that cut their daughter's clitoris off. I can accept that they have these views. I accept that they are the majority in this area. But I prefer a national set of laws that reflects my values.