Quote from: BTConomist on July 17, 2011, 02:56:36 AM

Quote from: Synaptic on July 17, 2011, 02:21:31 AM

Quote from: BTConomist on July 17, 2011, 02:13:53 AM

Quote from: Synaptic on July 17, 2011, 01:56:08 AM

Quote from: BTConomist on July 17, 2011, 01:45:18 AM

Quote from: Synaptic on July 17, 2011, 12:35:11 AM

Quote from: BTConomist on July 17, 2011, 12:27:28 AM

Quote from: Synaptic on July 16, 2011, 10:38:01 PM

Well I'm sorry that I have no interest in throughly explaining myself to someone who doesn't understand what I've already written. I hope that someone else wouldn't mind "translating" or elaborating for you.

Let's me see here...

It seems that in order to make OP's assertion valid, one must simply rephrase "The long term trend for bitcoin value is contraction, not expansion." as "The long term trend for fiat/bitcoin exchange rates is contraction, not expansion."

See, we no longer talking about bitcoin's value--only about the ability of market makers (like MtGox crew, etc) to maintain fiat/bitcoin current exchange rates for more than a month or two. OP is right, bitcoin's true value is WAY BELOW current exchange rates due to bitcoin not having any economy to call Home. So, stop worrying about the exchange rates that market makers are feeding you every day. Instead, start offering your bitcoins to merchants... Let's see if they do value BTC more than their local fiat currencies.

Absolutely. You've summarized quite accurately.

Now, my OPINION is that BTC will never find a use with the wider public because it's "advantages" are really quite meaningless to your average consumer, and CERTAINLY don't outweigh the glut of inconveniences inherent to it.

But what's not opinion is that the exchange rate is massively overvalued and is now headed down to a more accurate valuation as the hype continues to subside.

And by "not opinion", I'm assuming you meant that "it's a fact"?... If so, then I concur: all of the shelves with fiat currencies have been emptied out; only the shelves with overripened "bananas" still remain. If only bitcoin miners could survive on bananas, we'd be fine!

As far as BTC finding its use with the wider public, you and I are of a different opinion. You see, there's still hope that miners would eventually realize that without spending, there can never be a deflation in the deflationary "by design" economy. In order to get from 21,000,000BTCs (monetary base) to 2,100,000,000,000,000BTCs (expected total money supply), all of 21,000,000BTCs must be constantly exchanging hands (and the more hands the better). Miners hoarding bitcoins is equivalent to the central banks (in inflationary economies) raising the minimum reserve requirements of their member banks (or bitcoin users, in our case), thus reducing the available money supply.

As for bitcoin advantages, perhaps you should try looking at the bitcoin network as the best-in-class accounting system/ledger of who owes what to whom. For example, what stops one neighbor (a computer buff) from agreeing with another neighbor (a landscaping business owner) to exchange their skills/services for bitcoins, rather than for local fiat currency? Bitcoins are perfect for that type of contracts.

But the point is that fiat currencies aren't evil, serve their purpose just fine and have for many hundreds of years and likely will for a hundred years to come. Do some currencies hyper-inflate? Sure do, and then they correct and recover. And it's not the fact that a currency can be inflated that makes fiat "evil," it's that there are corrupt governments, and Bitcoin isn't going to do a single fucking thing to remedy the fact that people allow corrupt governments to exist.

In fact, the motherfucking BITCOIN economy/exchange is more corrupt than the US economy and the FED right now!

Fiat currencies are not evil, but their money supply is out of people's control. Bitcoin, on the other hand, is a currency of the people by the people. Wouldn't you agree that voting with money is much more effective and efficient than voting with ballots or feet? (Money is fuel, so to speak.) If you control the money supply, you get to say what goes and what doesn't for whatever type of economy you are envisioning or trying to build. Having a choice is great, no?

Now, we just need to find a way to keep the market makers out of bitcoin economy... The stench is overbearing!

Negative. Every currency belonging to a democratically elected government is directly beholden to the populace. The point is that democratic populations are impotent and ineffectual at managing their own government and essentially deserve everything that they get coming to them.

Also, I'd much rather deal with the Dragon's Den on Wall Street and the Fat Cats in the Fed than the shithole excuses for monetary exchanges that belong to bitcoin and the Bitcoin Elite that hold the lions share of the entire currency among a tiny number of hands...

Don't delude yourself. Bitcoin is not a "currency" by the people for the people. It's a Multi-level Marketing scheme run by "Oligarchs" and market shysters.

Would have to disagree with you on one thing...

Currency belongs to those who issue it. So, if you let others (e.g. government, central bank, etc) to issue currency on your behalf, then it belongs to them, not you. In bitcoin's case, although it is the miners who are the issuers of BTC, everyone can set up their own mining rig at any time. The biggest hurdle that must be overcome is miners believing that bitcoin is an investment asset. And that's why I'm here... to help them realize that bitcoin will die unless there are millions of transactions in the block chain daily.

Dude, being able to just flip a switch and print your own money is exactly why we have regulated monetary organization in the first place. It doesn't fucking matter that a central authority prints the money, it's still a proof-of-work instrument.

The issue that idiots have with inflationary currency is that they put such a high value on their work relative to everyone else. They feel that since their work was worth X in year A that it should be worth exactly X in year B, or more. The problem they don't agree with is when the supporting economy can't sustain that value of work it must be devalued to keep the economy functioning.

Furthermore, inflation is a economic INCENTIVE to innovate, invent, and expand. That's why I believe people who stash away cash and bitch about inflation deserve to have their money divested from them, because I believe everyone should always be looking for ways to actively improve theirs and other's financial situations.