Quote from: murraypaul on November 26, 2013, 10:10:53 AM

Quote from: AnonyMint on November 26, 2013, 05:29:14 AM

Quote from: jajansen on November 26, 2013, 05:06:21 AM

Quote from: AnonyMint on November 20, 2013, 11:48:39 PM

You are confusing the cartel's transactions with the non-cartel transactions. The later are the ones that get delay. The cartel's miner excludes them when adding a block solution to the block chain.

So basically you say the cartel will for bigger future profits, now not reap the profits of non-cartel transactions. (that do give transaction fees, transaction without fees I now disregard, as i find it normal nobody wants to work for free...)

So analogy in the ´real´world in the sense that a cartel of shops somewhere lower their prices substancially, running losses, to outdo other shops to bankrupcy, and after that raise prices and earn a lot of money ?

Also I noticed you talk about 2 things: firstly a cartel not forwarding transactions to other miners, secondly a cartel not accepting transactions from non-cartel members.

And realize that because of those 2 things, this is horrific case where the cartel can both continue to profit on the transaction fees, i.e. it doesn't have to sacrifice by offering lower prices, and depriving the non-cartel miners of (increasingly greater share of) income while also depriving the non-cartel merchants and their customers of fast transactions.

The only transaction fees they will receive are from transactions they generate. They are just paying themselves, that can't generate profit.
Exactly the same result would be achieved by just mining their own transactions for zero fees, or processing them off-chain.

Do you realize how frustrating it is for me when you think you've discovered a flaw, yet you haven't read the thread carefully, because I have already refuted that 3 or more times upthread.

You can reread the discussion I had with JoelKatz about offchain transactions.

A few of the points against offchain:

* cartel can't scale up by leveraging the existing network
* cartel can't delay non-cartel transactions to force their customers to the cartel
* cartel can't prevent the customer from spending the BTC else where if cartel doesn't process onchain, thus doesn't deprive non-cartel of revenue
* transaction fees are paid by customers thus it is revenue
* they generate profit by growing the cartel, using the above factors

I think I made other nuanced points upthread on this line of thinking.