Quote from: myrkul on July 18, 2011, 12:41:36 AM

That money had to come from somewhere, yes? It isn't elephants all the way down.

At some point some miniscule portion of it did, sometimes centuries ago. Remember that there's a lot of inherited wealth out there.

Quote from: Atlas on July 18, 2011, 12:43:10 AM

That pre-existing wealth was earned by that person by providing value. It's that person's earned labor in the end.

Possibly.

Quote from: JoelKatz on July 18, 2011, 01:07:08 AM

Really? So how much is the labor of a ditch digger worth if there are no shovels? How much is the labor of a ditch digger worth if there are no irrigation systems that require ditches? Some of the value comes from the laborer, but some of the value comes from the circumstances that make that particular labor valuable, which is external to the laborer.

If there's no shovels or no ditches that need digging then no-one can make money digging ditches. My point is that if someone makes money digging ditches, the reason they earn that money and someone else doesn't is because they're skilled at ditch-digging. However, if someone makes money from providing access to money or scarce resources they control, the reason they earn that money is not because they're particularly good at doing so but because they're the ones that own that money or those resources. (About the only saving grace of this system is that if someone's really, spectacularly incompetent they'll lose their wealth to someone that is.)

Quote from: JoelKatz on July 18, 2011, 01:07:08 AM

It has nothing to do with who is the "better person". You don't have to be a good person to deserve to profit from the invention of the shovel, the construction of farms, and whatever other environment you are lucky enough to be born into.

Again, these are things that whole societies receive the benefits from rather than one particular person.