Quote from: DooMAD on May 20, 2018, 01:13:07 PM

Quote from: Zin-Zang on May 20, 2018, 10:58:14 AM

All they have to do is be on Multiple exchanges that offer Offchain Transactions such as Cryptopia or Trade Satoshi or any other 3rd party that wants to offer offchain transactions. Also since their transactions are offchain, no tracking is possible, unless the exchange complies with a warrant.
(But if no one know what exchange you are using , they would not know where to send a warrant. ) Wink

The Exchanges work right now without the complexities / confusion of LN.

Here is the kicker , any coin on the exchange can do it.

Exchanges don't have the time locks or limitations of LN and will probably be cheaper than LN fees.

*Decries LN "banks" which aren't actually banks at all, then tells people to use exchanges like actual banks* Roll Eyes

You realise that's pretty stupid advice right? With exchanges, you're trusting that third party to be the custodian of those funds. You are giving them your money, making them the owner of that money, and asking them to look after it for you. With a multisig setup, you still have control over your funds. I don't care how complex or confusing you think it is, it's still more secure to control your own private keys.

If you want to hand your money over to total strangers on the internet, go right ahead. Don't come crying to us when you lose it.

Exchange are up and running right now. The only really stupid advice I see is yours. Wink

You say wait for LN, you think LN will bypass all AML/KYC regulations.
You are confused and think that multisig means no one can take your coins, fact LN has a fee system which means they will take a % of your coins,
fact LN has a thing in place to Confiscate your entire amount if they believe you tried and broadcast an old LN transaction.

If you want to be secure, you don't give any one access to your coins, however if you are going to spend the coins anyway , you only have to send the amount that you are spending to the exchange , not all of your coins. Again you seem the stupid one.

Quote from: DooMAD on May 20, 2018, 01:13:07 PM

Quote from: Zin-Zang on May 20, 2018, 10:58:14 AM

FYI:
LN hubs , use their own LN Notes (promises to redeem/pay bitcoin), all LN hubs will be required to conform to AML/KYC regulations.
So LN transactions will not stay private and will be reported.
No Governments are going to allow LN Hubs=Unlicensed Banks to bypass all of their AML/KYC regulations.
They will eventually require a banking license for all LN Hubs and full reporting compliance.

Centralised exchanges are far more likely to be subject to KYC/AML than LN is, again demonstrating the absurdity of your argument. But again, go right ahead and take the "too dim to understand the benefits" option and hand your money over to strangers. It's not like you'll have any other option if you're using BCH anyway. At least BTC is giving users a choice over how they want to handle their privacy and security. I would much rather open a payment channel over depositing funds to an exchange.

Plus, for altcoin trading, we won't even need exchanges anymore when atomic cross chain transfers mean we can hop from one blockchain to another without any middlemen holding funds in between. Although, again, BCH users won't have the option to attend that party due to their limited vision. LN is a step towards the death of custodial banking, the exact opposite of what you attempt to portray it as.

The fact is Banks process Bank Notes (A Note is a promised to Redeem/Pay)
The fact is LN Hub process LN Notes (a promised to redeem/pay in bitcoin),
your lack of financial knowledge is a sign of your ignorance on the subject.

Exchange allow direct exchange between individuals, they do not process their own note system, ie: Exchanges can not be classified as a bank without a Note system.
Anon coins will be banned from many exchanges as the Governments begin their crack down. But non-anon coins are unaffected.
https://cointelegraph.com/news/hacked-crypto-exchange-coincheck-confirms-removal-of-four-anonymity-focused-altcoins
Exchange offchain systems works right now, is simple verses complicated , you send to a user name instead of an address.

You are just a LN zealot that refuses to deny it is a poorly designed system and the exchanges are cheaper , faster , and under less reporting requirements.
LN requires all funds to be used be Time Locked. Exchanges do not require time locking , so it is superior to LN.

Another example is Banks have CDs where they time lock your money for specific lengths of time.
LN hub/unlicensed bank time locks your bitcoin.

LN Hubs=Unlicensed Banks and that is apparent to anyone with any financial knowledge.

Feel free to make your weak arguments to your government officials when they make the AML/KYC regulations official on LN hubs.
I can already tell you , you're going to lose, they are just waiting for LN to actually work and they will act.