Quote from: DooMAD on May 20, 2018, 10:35:06 PM

Quote from: franky1 on May 20, 2018, 06:19:54 PM

LN uses multisig. its literally the definition of custodial

No it isn't. Exchanges are custodial because they, and only they, hold the keys.

lol
you make me laugh
so if your dad has custody of you. your mom cant have custody of you. and you cant do your own thing because only one person has custody??
and as a offspring of parents you have no responsibility to maintain and keep yourslf safe too?

so if you were evr arrested and in police custody. there is only one police officer in the world with the handcuff keys? and you no longer have rights to your own self preservation?

a apartment custodian has a key to the apartments to secure and maintain an apartment. so you cant have a key to your apartment anad your not responsible for also maintaining and securing your apartment

a custodian is not a sole controller. so dont even think that something like coinbase can avoid being a custodian by simply implementing multisig vaults. sorry to burst your bubble but coinbase would still be a custodian.

maybe you need to revisit the definition of custodian

Quote from: DooMAD on May 20, 2018, 10:35:06 PM

Quote from: franky1 on May 20, 2018, 06:19:54 PM

LN cannot scale as a hop and spoke model

LN already supports more transactions per second than BCH does. Maybe throw stones about scaling after you get out of your glass house.

actually it doesnt. though i am not sure why you are endlessly bringing BCH up. seems you are stuck in the reddit mindset of there only being 2 camps
which seems a narrowminded point of view to have in a decentralised ecosystem

anyway, using a legacy native tx i can make more payments faster than LN can.
ill give you a few days to think about that. Cheesy

have a nice time thinking about that

Quote from: DooMAD on May 20, 2018, 10:35:06 PM

Quote from: franky1 on May 20, 2018, 06:19:54 PM

LN has fund locks, revocations. so CLTV/CSV/revokes are a step towards custodial banking

Revocations are only there to disincentivise cheating. In practice, they shouldn't often be used. The only think being revoked is permission to spend from anything but the most recent balance, because if you could freely spend from an older balance without consequence, it would be easy to steal money and no one would use it.

Revocations are also very much proof that you're wrong about LN hubs being equivalent to banks. If hubs could control your money like a fiat bank or exchange does, there would be no need for revocations. So thanks for undermining your own (ridiculous) argument with that one.

you said earlier a person has full control of their funds. and could not control the other persons funds, there would be no need for revocations.
again have a long think about that.
use your own scenario and alpha test your own scenario against yourself. dont run utopian scenarios of perfect condition 'does it work' tests. but be a debugger/bruteforcer/blackhat and run 'does it break' tests. make yourself go into the mindset of how you could steal from your wife if you had a joint bank account with her. run scenarios of if you were both sides of a mutlisig how you could gain the edge and blackmail, extort, steal from yourself. you will be surprised.
ill give you a hint. due to a varience of onchain fee's at different times. a hub would like to adjust the fee when it broadcasts and would prefer to be the broadcaster because your payment affets other people the hub is linked to. so the hub would like the upper hand.
ill mention one such upperhand.. sighash_none.. but be warned there are many more things a hub will have, to have the upper hand.
but enjoy playing a blackhat of 'will it break' instead of asskissing 'utopia works'.. you will surprise yourself

dont assume utopia
dont assume because someone renames a chargeback as being called "revocation" that its not a chargeback
dont assume because someone names a bank branch a hub that its not a bank branch
dont assume because someone names a bank HQ a 'factory' that its not a HQ for hubs(bank branches)
dont assume because maths theory says a tx can be validated in 0.002 seconds, that 0.002 seconds is what real people using the system in real life will experience.

once you get out of your wood cabin named the core retreat. and started to test the walls instead of hugging the people in it. you will see the termites fall out the holes in the wall, when you hit it.
but although i dont live in a glass house. id prefer to live in a glass house than a wood cabin. due to being able to see beyond the wood. and yes i would not fear throwing stones.. no one should fear throwing stones. its the best way to find out whats easy to break and whats bulletproof

but id be the person that throws stones when the glass is being made. not wait until the house is built. but anyway go watch let them build your wood cabin and invite your core friends. live in cabin fever. and only notice th holes once the termites have already invaded