Quote from: ebliever on May 20, 2018, 11:09:16 PM

Quote from: Zin-Zang on May 20, 2018, 10:58:14 AM

OK,

Sorry to Burst your Bubble, but Any Coins , even the ones that don't use segwit or LN can all achieve Unlimited OffChain Scaling.

All they have to do is be on Multiple exchanges that offer Offchain Transactions such as Cryptopia or Trade Satoshi or any other 3rd party that wants to offer offchain transactions. Also since their transactions are offchain, no tracking is possible, unless the exchange complies with a warrant.
(But if no one know what exchange you are using , they would not know where to send a warrant. ) Wink

The Exchanges work right now without the complexities / confusion of LN.

Here is the kicker , any coin on the exchange can do it.

Exchanges don't have the time locks or limitations of LN and will probably be cheaper than LN fees.
Time will tell.

FYI:
LN hubs , use their own LN Notes (promises to redeem/pay bitcoin), all LN hubs will be required to conform to AML/KYC regulations.
So LN transactions will not stay private and will be reported.
No Governments are going to allow LN Hubs=Unlicensed Banks to bypass all of their AML/KYC regulations.
They will eventually require a banking license for all LN Hubs and full reporting compliance.

Your criticism is based on your blind faith about LN hubs being forced into AML/KYC by government regulation - despite the complete absence of such regulation currently. It would make more sense to assume that the centralized exchanges you mention would be targeted far earlier and far more effectively. Because if an exchange is targeted it must comply or it will be shut down and personnel hauled off to prison, and exchanges make big fat juicy targets.

It's funny that a bcasher (as a I assume you are) places such blind faith in centralized exchanges despite their miserable track record. Kinda fits with Ver's endorsement of Mt. Gox, come to think of it. But makes a laughingstock of their claims to favor decentralization because they choose centralization and authoritarian control at every opportunity.

If I'm a random LN node operator and some government passes a law demanding I comply along with a million other nodes/people, that government is going to have a miserable time finding out I'm even in their jurisdiction, and then tracking me down to force compliance. All for a node that might have all of $20 in funds in it. If they try this we'll bleed the government dry with guerrilla warfare tactics. It will be one huge game of whack-a-mole that the government will keep miserably losing at.

So give the bcash FUD a rest, it's just an expression of their delusional raving, as usual.

Again, your assumptions are incorrect
1. LN hubs / unlicensed banks will be required to follow AML/KYC regulations.

2. You actually think you can hide on the Public internet.
LOL, that is funny, IP address can be followed to physical locations. Ethernet card address are stored in a database connected to your PC's serial #.
Did you buy that PC with a credit card, now they have your name and address.
Over Half the tor nodes are compromised by the FBI, so good luck with that. Cheesy

3. I could care less what happens to BCash, I don't own any of it.

4. My main point was this:

Any coin can have unlimited scaling using offchain transactions provided by a 3rd party such as exchanges or someone else.

Trying to pretend like LN is the only way to scale offchain is where I call bullshit.

FYI: https://www.fincen.gov/news/news-releases/fincen-issues-guidance-virtual-currencies-and-regulatory-responsibilities

Quote

March 18, 2013
Describes Circumstances Where "Money Transmitter" Definition Applies

VIENNA, Va. - To provide clarity and regulatory certainty for businesses and individuals engaged in an expanding field of financial activity, the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) today issued the following guidance, Application of FinCEN's Regulations to Persons Administering, Exchanging, or Using Virtual Currencies. The guidance is in response to questions raised by financial institutions, law enforcement, and regulators concerning the regulatory treatment of persons who use convertible virtual currencies or make a business of exchanging, accepting, and transmitting them. Convertible virtual currencies either have an equivalent value in real currency or act as a substitute for real currency.

FinCEN's rules define certain businesses or individuals as money services businesses (MSBs) depending on the nature of their financial activities. MSBs have registration requirements and a range of anti-money laundering, recordkeeping, and reporting responsibilities under FinCEN's regulations. The guidance considers the use of virtual currencies from the perspective of several categories within FinCEN's definition of MSBs.

Contact FinCEN when you are ready to have your LN hub/unlicensed Banks won't be required to comply Bubble Burst.