Quote from: deisik on December 08, 2013, 01:19:18 PM

Quote from: ErisDiscordia on December 08, 2013, 12:44:52 PM

What strikes me as weird about this stance is the refusal to acknowledge a blatant problem in this approach: if it is true and life is nasty, brutish and short and human nature is selfish, violent and treacherous, how is the creation of an institution with the legal monopoly of initiating force not going to make things any worse? The selfish and treacherous people you need protecting against will suddenly turn into benevolent protectors, as soon as you give them a monopoly on force?? I don't see any evidence to support that. I do see lots of evidence pointing to the contrary direction: that said monopoly on force tends to attract the sort of people who are the most dangerous to others when in power, it corrupts them further and even corrupts the occasional honest idealist finding themselves there.

Very simple really, just a few words. Because it becomes profitable. When you don't have a monopoly of power you have to compete with someone else for it, and so you are predetermined by your position (liable to failure) to strip everyone around you of everything they may happen to have. Almost the same happens when warfare begins (external competition for power), government begins plundering their own population in an effort to retain the power with any means available. When nothing threatens the monopoly of power, it becomes profitable in the long run to turn into "benevolent protectors"

I think no one here idealizes state...

Thanks for your reply. I think I see your point.

Quite a scary conclusion (bolded) you're reaching there. We are reduced to hoping, that the entities in power recognize this and indeed turn into benevolent protectors. Also there are other factors, besides external threats, which might turn them towards looting their citizens, like greed, corruption, lust for power & wealth etc.

While I agree, that the monopolization of power is most profitable (for those in power), I would imagine that better cost-effectiveness (if that would be what we're really after) would be achieved through competition.