Quote from: User_513 on December 10, 2013, 12:53:04 AM

Quote from: porc on December 10, 2013, 12:29:13 AM

Quote from: PenAndPaper on December 10, 2013, 12:23:04 AM

Quote from: fluidjax on December 09, 2013, 10:40:10 PM

To paraphrase Eric Voorhees,
Bitcoin is unfortunately the name of two things.

1) it is the name of the Bitcoin protocol, which describes how the block chain, mining, etc. works.
This protocol performs some useful functions that no other money system can currently match. (Fast cheap transfer to any where in the world, robust etc etc) The Bitcoin protocol clearly has a value, and the value comes from its utility.
2) The Bitcoin protocol has been implemented to allow transfer of a digital currency, this currency is also called Bitcoin. A Bitcoin has no intrinsic value and is commonly misuderstood to be what Bitcoin is all about.

The bitcoin protocol and bitcoins per se cannot be seperated when you talk about intrinsic value. Bitcoins cannot exist outside the protocol and the protocol has no meaning without bitcoins.

Yes.

And my question to bitcoiners is still unanswered: What can I do with bitcoin? What is its value?

In before: I can dump it on the next guy.

What can you do with Bitcoin? 1) Conduct trade with others 2) and/or hold onto them as a store of value. What is Bitcoin's value? 3) The value is determined by market demand.

4) There will only ever be 21,000,000 Bitcoins, so their value can never be diminished by inflation of the supply. 5) Trade conducted exclusively in Bitcoin isn't subjected to taxes. What is it worth to have a medium of exchange that can't be devalued and that some 3rd party doesn't feel entitled to help themselves to whatever share of that they want? 6) The day is coming when it's going to take a LOT of government fiat to convince anyone to part with their BTC.

1) Dumping BTC on the next guy does not give BTC value.
2) if there is no value, BTC can not function as a store of value.
3) price is not an indication of value. Over the long term the market will price value correctly. Over the short term wild fluctuations can lead to high prices for things with little (tulips) or no value (BTC).
4) Scarcity is a word describing the availability/ quantity of something. It cant be equated with value (deadly insects are not valuable to you but scarce).
5) False you have to pay capital gains taxes on bitcoin gains in dollars. If you dont sell them for dollars but trade them for a good this counts as a sell.
6) I dont share this opinion (I do think fiat will collapse, but bitcoin will collapse as well).