Quote from: Walter Rothbard on December 11, 2013, 05:46:37 PM

Quote from: Hawker on December 10, 2013, 10:12:57 PM

Quote from: Walter Rothbard on December 10, 2013, 10:04:22 PM

Quote from: deisik on December 10, 2013, 08:51:31 PM

Quote from: Walter Rothbard on December 10, 2013, 05:36:10 PM

When you justify using force to force people to be part of your system, you are justifying tyranny. Even if your system is measurably great in some way, or many ways. The ends (greatness in economic growth or some other measure) do not justify the means (infringing the right of other people to their life, liberty, and/or property).

It is our moral judgment that we erroneously extend on state which is beyond morality. You just can't attach your idea of means not justifying ends to state, whether you like it or not. It would be equal to saying that it is immoral when one animal kills another. Such judgments are simply inapplicable here...

My basic argument is that there is no way you can justify infringing on someone else's rights to life, liberty, and property. So yes, I can say that no ends justify those means.

Isn't that you imposing your morality on other people?

No - it's just me insisting other people should not impose their morality on me or on anyone else. That's all.

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For example I am opposed to animal cruelty. Is it your argument that people who are cruel to animals that they own should not be prosecuted? What gives you the right to dictate that?

By all means prosecute them. I support their right to defend themselves from you.

They don't have a right to defend themselves. Rights are legal creations and no-one has created a right to abuse animals.