Quote from: senseless on June 10, 2018, 09:04:14 PM

I started this project to get the VCU1525 going once bittware entered the space. After having tried dealing with them as far back as august/september 2017. I already knew they were not going to provide the pricing that was required to really move into the space. I didn't want to see anyone be taken advantage of with high mark ups. I had already been dealing with Xilinx for over a year trying to get them to open up to the crypto markets. They wouldn't deal with me. I had no previous business with them. As far as they knew I was just some crazy guy walking in off the streets asking for 10s of 1000s of units of product and pricing that's hard to get for even their best customers. David had that relationship, he's done business with them, and knows how they operate. After a little 1, 2 action we got a KO and were able to execute on what by industry standards is considered an unheard of deal. There's one caveat to that, we had to lock up the market to do so and required large purchase amounts. It's not unreasonable to get a sense of what market demand will be. Further, this is not a pre-order where you're ordering some imaginary asic a year or 2 out that may not even function correctly after tape-out. This is a proven product with existing supply channels and production lines. The risk on our end offering pre-orders is minimal as Xilinx is contractually obligated to fulfill their role.

Here's where Xilinx is at. They don't know what to make of this market. They don't know what if I've been telling them and others have been telling them is true. But, they've decided to find out for themselves and put their toes in the water. I can say they're watching this space very closely and I have no doubt that multiple people from Xilinx, possibly even C-level, have read the posts from these threads or at least received a summary of what's going on. If we went to them with some letter of credit instead of cold hard cash, it's quite possible this deal would have never happened. They're saying "show me the money" -- not -- "show me a letter of credit".

Again, I don't think it's unreasonable for us to open up pre-orders. I'm excited that Xilinx gets to see what this market looks like and how it operates. Yes, it's fast and loose, wild west, crazy, insane, pick your word. I can imagine even their lawyers being on the edge of their seats watching the space. We're doing the best we can, we've been transparent with everything that's been going on as much as we possibly can be. Yes, we're not perfect, we make mistakes. I was a little snippy to a customer before and I'm not very happy about it. Give us a chance and let's see how this thing goes. Maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised by the end of all this. We have no intention of "going bitmain".

Thank you very much for your very thoughtful and well reasoned reply. You don't have to explain yourself to me, I'm fully supporting the general gist of your business model. I've made a comment about your question related to financial side of the deal.

Way too many people in the cryptosphere are getting "some crazy guy walking in off the streets" treatment because they focus on the wrong things: how they dress to the meeting, what car they roll in with, etc. and most importantly: they seem to be proud of not knowing anything about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Commercial_Code . So I really doubt you when you say they asked about "cold hard cash" (do they asked for suitcases or would plain bags be OK?) This isn't some contraband deal, properly drafted letter of credit would be actually better than a suitcase of money, because it is not only a guarantee of payment but also very good promise of the future business.

I've been in this business, met some people both successful (like Xilinx) and failures (like Plus Logic, but search for "Plus Logic Inc", otherwise you'll get overwhelmed with irrelevant stuff). I don't really know what happened at your meeting, but I went through very detailed postmortems of the meetings (and lawsuits) I was then involved. So I have some actual knowledge what led to success and what caused the failures.

It may look like nitpicking, but it starts with really small things:

1) using correct physical units (e.g. kWh and not Kw per hour or similar abominations) and other technological details;
2) using correct semantics (e.g. subject-object distinction) even if the grammar is lacking;
3) not mixing up an agent with a principal in a transaction;

and ends up at really important stuff like:

4) know what you don't know and don't be afraid to admit to it.

Oftentimes the experienced businesspeople will intentionally say something disagreeable or outright stupid just to gauge the reaction of the interlocutor and to see firsthand how they will get corrected or even if they get corrected at all. Many salespeople are so drilled (or self-drilled) into ABC (Always Be Closing) that they will try to agree just about to anything if they think that brings them nearer to closing. Success with retail sales (e.g. fast talking and clever one-liners) doesn't always translate into a success in the high-level transactions.

I don't know who advised you on the financial and legal side of this deal. But if you hire a good lawyer, he will tell you mostly the same things I type in here for free. But the good commercial lawyer will know the details of the UCC and will not be trying to make general statements like I'm doing here for the benefit of readers of an Internet forum. In particular you may want to have an in-person review of what was said in your meetings and conversations with Xilinx & Paypal while your memory is still fresh. You guys are getting prepaid terms probably because you had somehow inadvertently behaved like common scammers despite actually trying to work a legitimate deal.

And that is my "angle" in this thread.