Quote from: BADecker on June 18, 2018, 04:06:46 PM

Quote from: Astargath on June 18, 2018, 03:52:15 PM

Quote from: BADecker on June 18, 2018, 03:37:06 PM

Quote from: Astargath on June 18, 2018, 03:21:07 PM

Ok, I asked you how do you know things are designed, you answered with this:

''How do we know it is design? Because it uses all the mechanisms inside the things that we design'' So you claimed to know things are designed (plants, humans, rocks) because those things use the mechanisms inside the things that human design. Now you are saying that we are the ones incorporating natural design into our design, problem is how do you know there is such thing as ''natural design''?

''Well, the motions of atoms and their subatomic particles are mechanisms that we use inside everything that we design'' No they aren't. We don't use the motions of atoms to create a bottle, at least not on purpose, otherwise you can say you use the motion of atoms doing anything.

The fact is that humans design things, we know that because we can compare them to nature, that's why we say nature is not designed. Everything is filled with flaws, something that you wouldn't expect in a perfect design.

If you think that we don't use the motions of atoms in our creation of bottles, the only thing else that fits is miracles.

When we compare our things to the things of nature, we only determine that we designed them rather than the designer of nature. We still use the basics of design of nature in everything we design. Why? Because design is all that there is.

Everything is filled with flaws relationally, and on our scale of looking at things with our generally limited ability. However, there are no flaws in the laws of physics. If there were, everything would come crashing down in with the minutest of them.

Our flaw/no-flaw universe works like this. Adam and Eve sinned - the first flaw - which should have crashed the universe. Jesus immediately promised the Father that He would fix the flaw... the reason the universe didn't crash. The Father piled up the flaw results, holding the universe in place against the flaw. Jesus took the disruption for the flaw at His crucifixion, and proved that He overcame the flaw and its disruption by His resurrection. All other flaws were included; the flaws were corrected, even though their correction isn't apparent to us in our limited ways of thinking and understanding, generally. The fact that the universe stands, and that the laws of physics remain unbroken, shows that this is so.

Cool

Recycling the same bad design argument isn't going to prove god, sorry. There is no way to determine whether nature is designed or not and you clearly have no test, study or anything to prove plants or rocks are designed.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_design
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Suboptimal_design
http://commonsenseatheism.com/?p=2520

And as I said many times, even if all of this showed a creator exists, in no way it shows that it's Yahweh as you claim.

I can accept that you and others don't want to understand the design that exists in all things.

Cool

If you can provide evidence I will sure understand it, just claiming that other things are designed because they are it's not an argument.