Quote from: Forward_Thinking on June 26, 2018, 05:01:06 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on June 26, 2018, 03:33:39 AM

Quote from: Forward_Thinking on June 25, 2018, 11:37:33 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on June 25, 2018, 09:17:20 PM

I don't doubt that theymos is continuing to assess the extent to which the actual behavior is playing out as a failure or a success, and likely the assessment is going to come out somewhere in the middle rather than your seeming presumption that the system has been a failure and that some goals have not been reached.

A bunch of assumptions there. But let me ask you to assume something real quickdo you believe they set metric based goals that they have been assessing all along and seeing how things are going? Meaning, they said We expect X% of Y Account will do Z 20% more often after the deployment of Merit? Thats how I would have managed this.

Well, I would imagine that there is an attempted measurement of account farming and shit posting, so these kinds of measures might not be precise to verify whether the merit system implementation is causing movement in the preferred direction. Furthermore, there could be issues with merit sources not spending their smerits or engaging in borderline abusive use of their source merits that might need to be measured to decide whether to change merit source incentives. Some behaviors are going to be easier measured than others, and there could even be some considerations about changing the measurement tools based on kinds of behaviors that are detected.

I am guessing you are saying they may have set vague goals?

Your "guess" is just that. You can read through posts from theymos that articulates some of the goals, and you can see discussions of goals, frequently goals are not articulated as mandates.. so there can be some subjective interpretation about meaning and there can be shifting of the goals. Again, it is your job to describe and to show evidence about what you believe are the goals and or what they should be based on evidence and reasonable inferences. You seem to have a tendency to try to shift some kind of burden onto me when you are the person who is criticizing deficiencies in the system and what you propose changes, such as abolishing such system.

Quote from: Forward_Thinking on June 26, 2018, 05:01:06 PM

I really don't see an answer to my question.

I have no duty to answer your question(s), and I gave you responses that are sufficiently responsive and not evasive. I did my part. It's on you, now, to do some work, rather than getting caught in the weeds of irrelevance regarding alleged (and seemingly concocted) deficiencies in my response(s).

Quote from: Forward_Thinking on June 26, 2018, 05:01:06 PM

Since you are setting yourself up as some sort of Merit system defense counsel,

NOT.. another thing in your imagination. I am just saying that you are failing and refusing to prove your case. I am not engaged in any active defense of the merit system as you seem to want to present the matter in such a way in order to shift the burden of presentation and evidence from me to you. Why don't you get a grip and take responsibility for the substance of your own presentation rather than continuing in irrelevant distractions? Are you able to or competent enough in such direction?

Quote from: Forward_Thinking on June 26, 2018, 05:01:06 PM

and you don't know what metric based goals they set,

I don't need to know, but even with my not knowing, I seem to know more than you, and I am not even presenting a case, like you are... go figure?

Quote from: Forward_Thinking on June 26, 2018, 05:01:06 PM

it seems they may not have set any. If that is the case, that's a botched job.

Yeah right... use your imagination to come up with fantasies that are unlikely to be true... and even when there is decent evidence to the contrary... You are making a lot of "progress" here is your supposed "forward thinking" - which increasingly is seeming a bit backwards from my perspective.

Quote from: Forward_Thinking on June 26, 2018, 05:01:06 PM

This is a really an important point as the likelihood of success or failure absolutely is impacted by goal setting.

Yes.. If you create a strawman argument with made up facts, then it is much easier to win in that argument..

Quote from: Forward_Thinking on June 26, 2018, 05:01:06 PM

First, if they have no metric based goals, they will never be able to determine if they actually achieved their goals.

Repetition and made up.

Quote from: Forward_Thinking on June 26, 2018, 05:01:06 PM

Second, if they have no metric based goals, they will not know how to make course corrections (which are pretty much always needed because with people, things never go perfectly as planned).

Merely because goals might be unclear to you does not mean that either there are none or that theymos, for example, cannot figure out if he perceives progress.... which I am not even going to go along with your seemingly completely made up conjecture that there are no goals... Roll Eyes

Quote from: Forward_Thinking on June 26, 2018, 05:01:06 PM

When you launch some major intervention impacting thousands of people and don't have any metric based goals, you know what that is called? It is called guessing. If they are guessing, they are playing with fire.

The only one who seems to be guessing around here is you, and the more I read your bullshit, the more I am concluding that you are not even attempting to be genuine.. you are just making up shit, which is also a kind of trolling.