Quote from: GreekBitcoin on December 25, 2013, 05:09:58 AM

Quote from: giletto on December 25, 2013, 04:40:17 AM

I just want to correct him, because he thought, the price is depend on lower exchange rates or something like that. And about the demand, that is exactly the reason, why they are overpriced. In your bar example: If you have a bar in a area with high demand and low infrastructure around (near a mine for example), you can charge 1000% for a beer because you use the dependancy of the worker/miner, usually is this impossible, in a normal area you will not got more then 300%.

So you sample is crap, because for 2 reason: Nobody buy a miner for his fun or to enjoy the time, like to drink a beer in a bar. Every Miner will buyed for 1 reason, to bring a little profit. Second reason, if they would charge a profit of 300% and sale the miner for 20-30USD, the price would be reasonable, for BOTH so you can call it win/win, for factory AND buyer! 1000% is simple greedy, and only 1 party got win, the factory. The buyer lost, it's a win/lost

The price for production is impossible 8-12USD as i wrote: 1 Chip Batch sale for 99BTC, 10.000pcs. This mean, each chip cost the factory much lesser then this sale price of 0.0099 each or USD about $6. If they calculate the chips at the same rate like the USB and they charge 1000%, each chip cost lesser then $1, so i guess when i say $5 for the chip is much higher then the real cost!

And 1 USB PCB you got finish developed for 1000 or more units fur much lesser then $2 in china ALL INCLUSIVE! With my price range of 6-7USD i am much overrated, so this price is for sure INCLUDE all side costs!

Don't calculate with US prices or where you came from, i stay in Asia and i know the production cost of electronic here. Believe me, 1000% are at least the profit for the USB Miner. And we talk about Group sale, not end customer sale!

This deal is impossible to be for anyone profitable because there is no space for anyone to calculate with profit, after the factory charge 1000%. On the end every end customer will pay much much overprice, and will never see ROI, even because this reseller price is impossible to get ROI!

Sure you could say: up to them, why they bought so expensive. But in my eye is that not the idea behind a group buy or BTC philosophy. There are enough greedy player in normal capitalism. The BTC or the miner community should keep together and work against this greedy behaviour.

I agree with you but you except one thing. There is no capitalism without super greed. It is the essence of capitalism. You like it or not. There is no middle position. There is no way BTC community will keep together. Greedy behaviour will exist as soon as capitalism exists.

Everybody wants to repeal the law of supply and demand... Get over it. It can't be done. The manufacturer has a limited production capacity. There are enough people willing to pay the price they ask to well out their capacity. If that changes and people won't pay the price, they will lower their price. If people offer more money and they can't increase their supply, price will go up to reduce demand to the amount they can manufacture. It's as simple as that. It's not greed, it's giving people what they want for a price they are willing to pay. Yes, it makes no sense to buy the product if you can't make money off of it. But there is apparently no shortage of people that don't do the math, or think the math doesn't apply to them for some reason to buy all of the capacity they have at a price that will not make the customer money. Don't get mad at the manufacturer for selling their product into the market for what people are willing to pay. Get mad at the customers that are willing to pay more than they should driving the price up. Supply and demand works. It always has, and always will. Capitalism works because everyone works in their own self interest. The problems always come in when governments come in and try to "fix" things. They inevitably jump in and make things worse. a situation like this where too many people are willing to pay too much never lasts. Capitalism and supply and demand are self correcting. When governments come in and "price fix" everyone ends up paying more in the long run. As the manufacturers continue to make more of their product they get better at it and reduce their costs, and demand will fall off and prices will come down. When there is price fixing the price stays high, or if it is set artificially low a black market develops where connected people buy up all the supply and re-sell at higher prices anyway. It's human nature. It can't be changed. Capitalism works because it takes advantage of human nature and competition to get the most product to the most people at the lowest possible price. Freedom works. every time it's tried. But people always complain so politicians get in the mix and muck it up for everyone. That's why socialism has failed everywhere it has been tried. And why a little start up country of peasants created the most powerful country in the world in less than 100 years. Unfortunately, we are now losing it. While communist China is learning capitalism from the huge success of Hong Kong. By the way, every time the US has lowered taxes revenue to the US Treasury has increased. The economy grows and they get a smaller piece of a much bigger pie. Money is only taxed when it changes hands. When taxes are too high people hoard their money and it doesn't get taxed. Raising taxes doesn't punish the rich either, it just makes it much harder for anyone else to accumulate any wealth, keeping the rich on top and taking the opportunity from everyone else to become rich.

You decry the greed of the company, but yet you want to buy their product from them at a lower price than others are willing to pay for it. Greed is a 2 way street.

Sorry, I just get so sick of the BS taught in schools about the wonders of socialism and how everyone can be equal in a utopian paradise. The only result is everyone is equally miserable and poor, while the ruling class politicians and their cronies have all the money and power over individuals lives. Take a look at Cuba and Venezuela, North Korea for examples. The Soviet Union also failed. It never works, but for some reason people never learn and keep trying.

Freedom and non-interference by government is a big part of what bitcoin is all about. Learn to understand the rest of it in supply and demand, that's what make the price of bitcoin keep going up too.

/end rant

Korxax

1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe