Quote from: WhatTheGox on October 06, 2015, 12:21:34 PM

Quote from: protokol on October 05, 2015, 07:08:26 PM

Quote from: WhatTheGox on October 05, 2015, 05:28:21 PM

Quote from: Snail2 on October 05, 2015, 03:04:44 PM

Nothing wrong with vegan food as a side-dish for a nice chunk of meat

. A bit more seriously, we are designed to be omnivores. That "omni" thingy includes meat and fat as well. BTW the first and last fully vegan humanoids, the Paranthropus robustus chewed nuts, roots and bulbs and got extinct eventually, while their scavenging cousins the Australopithecus africanus happily turned to our progenitors.

I've seen this chart below been passed around vegan circles saying that we aren't omnivores, any thoughts on the chart since you seem to know some stuff on the matter:

http://vegaprocity.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/dietarydifferences.jpg

Lots of vegans will try and push this argument, that humans are not technically omnivores. It's complicated, but we know that humans have eaten meat for at least 10,000 years (probably much longer) and our physiology points towards us being omnivorous. It seems silly to say we're not omnivorous, because we can digest vegetables and meat (we have the enzymes present in our gut to break down meat). Just because we don't need meat, doesn't mean we are herbivores/frugivores.

Anyway, I've never thought this argument mattered much, because we know that you CAN survive as a vegan (albeit with a little difficulty). And most intelligent vegans will use another, more compelling argument - The reason, they say, that we shouldn't eat meat is because we know that we don't need it, and we also know that animals are suffering as a result of our meat-eating.

Now personally I think most vegans are shooting themselves in the foot when they try and recruit others, by saying that killing animals is morally wrong. This is because most people won't make such a drastic change to their diet (like many people, I love meat too much to give it up).

What they should be doing, is getting people to eat free-range, outdoor reared animals rather than cheap shitty battery animals. This way, everyone wins - The animals don't suffer and have a happy life, the farmers get paid more, and the consumer gets tastier, healthier meat. If every vegan did this instead of trying to guilt trip everyone into giving up meat, there would be more happy animals in the world.

I guess the vegans would argue that the animal still gets killed at some point in their life even if free range against their will. Probably in a period of being in their prime also. Just saying. Agree on some of the points for sure.

Currently im mostly a pescetarian fwiw but had a chicken burger a month ago Grin

So the overall feeling here is that the chart is total horsecrap?

yes, as with most/all veggie/vegan propaganda.. it is nonsense and only an attempted way to frame mixed (correct/incorrect) data to present a view that cannot be challenged by those who do not know any better...

similar to the "protein in 100 calories of brocoli vs steak" memes, whereby it is completely ignored that you would have to eat a metric shit ton of brocoli to get the same protein, and those proteins would be incomplete profiles, vitamins would be much less bioavaliable
~

The ethical argument I somewhat agree with... we should definitely treat animals as best we can. But the vegan/veggie propaganda also fails to mention that as much wild-life/animals suffer or are killed through their diet if they are eating mono-cropped/factory farmed vegetables... loss of habitat, harvesting, destruction of soil/ecosystem.

The only solution for now, is to properly raise and treat animals well. Give them a happy, healthy and full life; stop monocropping/factory farming;- smaller farms that properly rotate their crops and animals (for soil/ecosystem quality), are the most sustainable and environmentally friendly way of doing things.

Quote from: Kunaguero94 on July 07, 2018, 02:36:59 PM

There are many who do not know about the benefits of vegetarianism. Proper vegetarianism, combined with legumes, is not only full of nutrients for the body, but also for the development of the brain. Firstly you will have a healthy heart, away from diabetes, atherosclerosis by harmful fats from animals. Vegetarian foods are rich in fiber, vitamins, minerals, these are extremely benign, purifying your body, eliminating the stagnant toxins in your body so you can stay healthy and last longer. longer life

This is utter nonsense, saturated fats from animals are NOT unhealthy; they are some of the most stable and healthy fats we can consume. The extremely unhealthy fats are vegetable/seed oils such as sunflower/soya... these are extremely unstable under heat/light/oxygen; they are rancid before they even leave the factories they are processed in (which is why they deodorize them). They are very high in omega-6 fats which tend to be precursory to pro-inflammatory processes.

Our typical omega3:6 ratio during evolution was close to 1:1, 1:2 (o3:o6).... in the modern diet, it is closer to 1:20.. this is responsible for a huge proportion of the modern illnesses... along with reliance and massive amounts of grains/sugar every day.

Much of the vitamins/minerals in the plant world are far less bioavaliable to us and come with other concerns such as defense mechanisms... so whilst many plants/vegetables/fruit are healthy... if you eat too many of the wrong kinds (grains, soya and other legumes, especially if not properly processed/fermented), they can be very unhealthy.