Quote from: NeuroticR on July 08, 2018, 07:11:18 PM

Quote from: michele1it on July 08, 2018, 03:55:35 PM

Quote from: NeuroticR on July 08, 2018, 02:41:16 PM

Quote from: HologramX on July 07, 2018, 05:20:27 PM

Quote from: michele1it on July 07, 2018, 04:57:11 PM

Quote from: NeuroticR on July 07, 2018, 12:01:19 PM

Quote from: michele1it on June 26, 2018, 02:24:36 PM

Quote from: NeuroticR on June 25, 2018, 10:25:34 PM

Quote from: michele1it on June 23, 2018, 08:09:34 PM

Quote from: NeuroticR on June 22, 2018, 11:17:46 PM

Quote from: michele1it on June 22, 2018, 08:51:52 PM

Quote from: MRD911 on June 22, 2018, 07:12:50 PM

Given the price, I feel 10k collateral for mn is not too outrageous. Any idea if and when this will be occurring?

Thanks,
MRD

What is outrageous is not the amount of collateral, but if this choice is made outside the blockchain governance system (functions of voting integrated into the wallet, for those who do not know), what is outrageous is if the right to vote is denied to the true shareholders and owners of the voting power that is only and only the owners of the masternodes and the stakers. Everything else loses importance if such a serious action on the part of the team happens.

If you would know why the decision of increasing masternode collateral to such an amount was taken by the team initially and not through the masternode governing system, you would not ask that question. The decision was primarily taken to ensure the maximum security of Feirm blockchain.

Considering the current price of the coin, I do not see a big issue in it anyway. It is just the collateral that is getting increased, it is not a swap or fork that it must happen through a voting system. Also I think most community members are welcoming this change. It is not possible to please everyone, not even in pure democracy. Upto 49% people can stay unhappy following a democratic solution.

I'm sorry but you do not know what you're talking about, the security of the network is greater with a greater number of masternodes, also the only "community" that can decide such a thing is the "community" of the holders who put the "grain", not a "community" of Discord users that could also be fake users. What you still do not understand is that the problem is not the increase of collateral (even if many nodes are more secure) but the problem is the way it is decided. The team does not have this power or this right. The team can decide what they want on the "product" (in the case of Feirm the "marketplace of digital content") but can not decide on the blockchain, otherwise it is no longer a decentralized system. Discord can not decide on the blockchain. What is not clear about something so basic? It will be clear to you when Feirm will be worth less. Here there is no minority to be satisfied, but there is a totality (100%) of masternodes and stakers that is deprived of its legitimate right to vote and to decide and which is deprived of its functions in the blockchain. Although I would have no problem with a major collateral I will never accept such abuse, a non-voting masternode is worthless so I will not dismantle my knots to unify them into one node, because after an abuse of the genre Feirm nothing will be worth, I will just sell the coins because for me they will not be worth anything anymore and obviously I will try to make this bad story known to the thousands of users who follow me in numerous Telegram groups. It is not a threat, of course, decentralization is an ideal that must be carried out in all blockchains and such behavior by the team of Feirm and the alleged Discord "community" place Feirm outside of our world. I am still using moderate words to avoid that in the search results Feirm is associated with certain types of accusations, there is still the possibility to understand that the blockchain and a cryptocurrency are not a teen's play on Discord. I repeat there is still time to get on the right path. Who would want to lose their legitimate rights and for what reason? How do you make sure you have not voted on Discord along with fake users? Voting is a serious matter, when the masternodes and stakers vote the seriousness and the right to vote are sworn by the coins that are in the wallet. Did not you know? Welcome to the world of blockchain ...

I know exactly what I am talking about, unfortunately you are missing something here. It is not about more masternode securing the network. I can try to give you a better perspective if you please join the discord and perhaps DM me there. Cheers.

I'm sorry but I'm not interested in Discord, this forum is a serious and public place to deal with and since Satoshi is the place par excellence to discuss these topics.
And speaking of governance and voting rights of the masternodes ... maybe I'm not the only one to think so ... look look a bit ...

https://www.stakeandnodes.com/what-is-governance

You do not have to explain anything in private, it's not necessary, things like that are discussed in public and the rules are simply respected and applied, all very very obvious ...

Seems like you are trying to shed some light on me about governance while you deny to understand what I have been telling you. Therefore I thought you needed to be spoon fed and I would be happy doing that on chat, I dislike typing message here with no real time feedback. Direct conversation is much better in situation like this.

This forum is serious and that is why I replied you. Feirm plans to increase collateral to make the network safer from any 50% attacks from whale groups. I do not understand why you are so furious about it! Nothing will be changed, just the collateral! And with this price, it is a very logical decision. Who would spend dollars running a masternode that has the value of a cent?

I do not need a spoon, thank you. The problem is not whether I am or I am not furious. The problem is that all owners of masternodes should be because with this illegitimate vote the value of their masternodes has become less than zero. The legitimate votes in the masternodes systems make the masternodes (and the stakers in Feirm of course). Watch case right these days I tried to vote for a proposed governance in the SUCRE currency and I thought it was "complicated" instead I found that it was enough to paste a line with copy and paste directly into the console wallet and press the enter key ... the wallet did not even ask me for the password to vote ... nothing could be easier to exercise your voting rights through the wallet.
And in these days there is another well-known coin (SIBCOIN) that is voting various proposals to increase the collateral and look at ... only the masternodes can vote in the Sibcoin network, there are no childhood votes on Discord ... very very strange!!! Perhaps out there is a world of coins of masternodes and teams that correctly uses the integrated governance system in the wallet and guarantees the legitimate right of masternode owners ... absurd !!!
The increase in the collateral made by FEIRM is illegitimate because it violates the rights of masternodes and stakers. The problem as I have already explained to you is the method, not the content. Since you like the spoon so much, the problem is the spoon you are using, not what you put in it. I could also agree to the increase of the collateral and I have repeated so many times but the method and the place where you have decided it is totally ILLEGAL because it allows users who are not identified and who have no rights and that can also be fake users (I do not say that they are manipulated by the team but someone could think of it) to decide instead of the masternodes owners and stakers who are the legitimate rights holder. Is your mentality so far from understanding what the correct procedural rules are? I am Italian, I am descended from the ancient Romans who have laid the legal foundations of law and therefore my mentality can not disregard the correct application of the procedures. and the legal rules of any system. In the decentralized blockchain with masternodes, the rules make the masternodes with their right and voting power once the mainnet is turned on. If this is not clear to the Feirm team it means that they have to go back to school after having done a nice bath of humility and then there will be room for them in the decentralized and procedural world of the real and serious blockchains. There is no room for children and games in our world, because this is not going anywhere.

Like Michele .. I agree with an increase in collateral, but not from the way it was decided. I totally agree with "EVERY SINGLE WORD WRITTEN HERE" Just to remind you .... THIS IS FROM THE HOME OF YOUR SITE.

"By owning an X-Masternode, you can take part in the vote on the network and decide what is going on."

SO ..... do not be surprised if NO ONE wants to be part of your family ... if TEAM does not know the basic rule of decentralized Blockchain, probably is not adequate for this project .... and probably this project is a simple copy of other projects without foundation ... I'm sorry because I bought a lot of XFE coins that I sold immediately after the "decision", just in time ... before doing the masternodes and before volume going to ZERO. I'm sorry for ALL OTHER investor that lose his money.. :-( it could be a great project.

I don't agree with you because of the following reasons:

1. Feirm is still in infancy where dev team has the right to take decision how they arrange a community vote, since most of the active members are in discord, and discord is also the place from where Feirm started its journey, it is logical.

2. As Feirm is still in infancy and has not yet started the masternode governance system, unlike other matured projects that you are referring to, there is no point complaining about it.

3. As I have mentioned, even if they would arrange a voting through masternodes, it would not solve the basic problem in the first place. The main purpose of changing collateral is to secure the system from current and future threats. Through masternode voting, the whale group could overturn the result in their favour which is consistent with 50% attack.

4. Changing collateral is not a hard fork, it is not changing any specs of the chain. Almost all community members are welcoming this decision. Change through the masternode governance system would be ideal, I completely agree with you, but as I mentioned in my third point, at this stage it would pose the similar risk of a 50% attack unfortunately.

I appreciate your concerns, but let the project get matured and secured first before they implement the masternode governance voting system, which they will. Feirm is building something to stay in the blockchain space for long term, therefore community members need to have patience and faith in the team before the project gets its own feet to offer true power of decentralization and democracy.

Whales? Which whales ... Grin

Here the only whale is the team that after the blockchain has been turned on arrogates the right to make changes with a "puppet" vote on Discord. That in 2018 we should feel that a vote on Discord can change a blockchain is really depressing and very dangerous for our industry. I am really afraid that a generation of ignorant children is growing up who think that the rules can be changed on the run at will. You are doing great harm to the industry. It seems to me that you also have confused ideas about the attacks (which, however, are 51% and do not make attacks in a vote like that, which attack would vote yes or vote no?). All this makes no sense I'm sorry, do not look for excuses that are neither in heaven nor on earth. You do not want to understand, sorry, lost opportunity, but now you've got me really tired, Feirm is a totally irrelevant project so I've already spent too much precious time taking it off to projects that know what a blockchain is and they know who has the right to do what. I tell you clearly that I would have voted yes but only with my masternodes ... I would never come to express my vote in a chat with users who do not know if they are real or if they are piloted. The masternodes and stakers represent the coins they put into the project, cryptocurrencies and blockchain with masternodes work like that, there is nothing else to say, if you do not feel well there is no place for you in the industry. In any case, as I said now, you have tired me ... you do not want to understand, worse for you, I just hope that this way of doing against the rules does not propagate to other projects, this is my last message on the subject because I do not want to keep the discussion about Feirm any longer ... newbies who constantly come in to say their little phrase to make it look like it's a cool project does not make me laugh. All simply ridiculous. I'm sorry to be hard on you, nothing personal of course, but serious things are serious things. Who has read and who will read will have his own idea. I leave you the last word, after which you try to grow up because you still have too much uphill road ahead of you. Good luck.

Your first sentence here proves you are completely ignorant about the project and not updated, which makes your whole discussion null and void.

There was no vote even in the discord, dev team and community members reached to this decision through open discussion in public chat, which is available to read for everyone. I think none in the community disagreed with this decision.

In my last reply I explained everything with full explanation which you have ignored completely, and you rather started attacking the project pouring your anger into it for whatever reason, which is laughable.

I agree that people reading this discussion will reach to their own conclusion and they will surely consider your ignorance about the project/anger preventing you from any logical argument and taking you to the point where you could not accept the reality that Feirm is still in its infancy and has not yet reached to its stability to start the masternode governance system. They will also get appropriate answers from my last reply to you.

At this point, I feel it has been just a waste of time talking to you with any logical argument and I will completely ignore you in future. Do proper research and investigations before investing into any project or commenting about management. I am having the impression that you are not far from being a newbie in crypto space.

Feirm and Feirm community is much bigger than any ignorant individual/individuals, and whether it becomes successful or not, this won't affect it by any means.

Yes I'm a newbie Grin

who knows me knows Grin

... your style fall speaks for itself ... we'll talk about it in a little while ... Wink