Quote from: JoelKatz on August 02, 2011, 11:28:42 PM

Remember, you said:

Quote from: Astrohacker

It's fraud because banks make you think their IOUs=dollars, when in fact they are definitely not equal because they are not backed 100% by dollars.

I am going to agree that this quote is the key to toppling your argument against loans here, Astrohacker. Fractional reserve banking doesn't create anything, it doesn't counterfeit money, it only redistributes money and debts. Banking is a closed system; take the sum over the money of every person with a loan and subtract the debt of every person with a savings account, and the total will be exactly as much as was brought in to begin with. Nothing was created, just moved.

The fact that you view their debts as dollars, or perhaps that you feel that's how they are presenting their debts, is not the fault of the banks. It's certainly not fraud, because they are quite up front about it, and fraud requires willful deception.