Quote from: Voodah on December 30, 2013, 10:30:50 PM

Quote from: windjc on December 30, 2013, 10:23:28 PM

Quote from: Voodah on December 30, 2013, 10:22:03 PM

Quote from: molecular on December 30, 2013, 09:58:54 PM

Quote from: Peter R on December 30, 2013, 09:09:50 PM

I recently learned I am one-degree of separation from a great whale manipulator. Manipulation is happening. I also learned that the exchanges realize this and are cracking down on it behind the scenes (they obviously don't want to come out and discuss this openly). And besides, as the market grows, manipulation is becoming more difficult anyways.

But it's important to note that the great whales do not want bitcoin to crash to the point where it truly damages confidence. They know they cannot quickly cash out 100,000 BTC and nor do they want to because they believe that bitcoin is the future of money.

In fact, the more I think about "manipulation" and "whales" the less I see it as manipulation in the first place. What's wrong with putting up a 1,000 BTC sell wall to try to drop the price? By doing this you are risking a larger whale eating your wall in a single bite--live by the sword and die by the sword it seems.

In conclusion, the great whales--more often than not--are allies of bitcoin.

I agree. I'm not sure why "manipulation" is seen as illegitimate. Maybe I should read up on history. Can someone point me to something in history that meant trouble and triggered all the regulation we have in the "regulated" markets?

In my current naive mind, I can see a "manipulation problem" only when "unfair advantages" are being played, like in the case of naked short-selling, for example.

I completely agree and I'm merely stating it exists and that it is naive to deny it.

I'm not talking about legitimacy. In fact, manipulation is part of the natural dynamics of any zero-sum game (as markets are). Everyone should read about Nash equilibrium, game theory and the such.

To win in the market it pays to think n moves ahead of your adversary, same as in chess.

Manipulation is just the art of tricking your opponents into picking the next wrong move, and then taking advantage of that.

Traditional market studies with successful traders has shown it goes much further than that, where some traders claim to be thinking and basing their strategies off of the analysis of 5 "moves ahead".

Chess players think as far as 10-15 moves ahead with all of their possibilities branched out.

Manipulation IS part of the game.

Then why the hell were your bitching that you wanted to stop trading because there was too much manipulation. Lol. Come on. Do you even read your own posts?

So now you agree?

You still haven't answered the question you proud little man.

Yes, manipulation is too heavy right now. I consider it best not to make any big decision.

What exactly do you not understand? You're getting dumber by the minute..

It depends on what you define as manipulation. Do I think there is manipulation that makes it too hard to trade. No. Are there people trying to influence the market. Yes. Do those people all act in the same way. No. There is counter balance. If these influences are actually having a major effect, then it creates trading opportunities even more than would be there without.

Do I think traders over analyze? Yes. We are just in a flat market now.