Quote from: Kakmakr on July 16, 2018, 07:16:49 AM

If we say that the Lightning Network is a 2cnd layer application, targeted at micro transactions, would we clearly define what constitutes a micro transaction first? I recently saw individual channels that are funded by +/- 37 bitcoins. Roll Eyes

This was my first impression of what the Lightning Network was developed for and that bigger transactions would still be done on-chain. In your view, would you say 1 bitcoin is a micro transaction?

Bitcoin on chain transactions will probably never scale above opening and closing lightning channels and swift style inter bank clearing. You know, in the longer term. That which doesn't fit on the first layer will be pushed off to the second. Simple as that.

Quote from: gentlemand on July 16, 2018, 09:22:53 AM

I think I'll go away until it's brainless. Are there plans to make it brainless?

With Bitcoin Lightning Wallet on android it's pretty brainless. Probably too brainy for the truly brainless, random middle aged ladies and what not, but probably close enough to the sort of brainless you are interested in.

Quote from: gentlemand on July 16, 2018, 12:48:43 PM

Right now micro payment to me appears to be asking for payment for something that was previously free that I don't value anyway that I'd rather go without than pay for such as articles or vids. I suppose there is that much fabled coffee.

This thought process falls victim to the problem of the seen and the unseen. You are failing to see the services that do not exist (an easy thing to fall victim to) but would exist if micro payments did exist. It is difficult to say whether or not you would be willing to pay for those or not, seeing as they don't exist, but you very well might.

Quote from: gentlemand on July 16, 2018, 12:48:43 PM

I would've thought machine to machine stuff is where lightning networks will end up shining.

Definitely. Imagine being able to bid for the transportation of discrete chunks of data. You just say "hey neighboring physical infrastructure nodes, I wan't this chunk of data to be transported to this address, who can do it the cheapest? who can do it the most quickly?" And your neighboring physical infrastructure nodes perform the same calculation, and the ones next to them the same calculation, et al. Then the price for each route comes cascading backwards all the way to each of the nodes that are physically adjacent to you and to you, you then pick your preferred trade off between price, bandwidth and latency. No need for data plans, almost impossible to censor, so much more private, and a network that could organically adapt to a living pulse of price signals. Heck even the north Korean government couldn't censor an internet like that. And that's surely just scratching the surface.