Quote from: aliashraf on July 16, 2018, 07:57:51 PM

Quote from: Anon136 on July 16, 2018, 07:09:59 PM

Quote from: Kakmakr on July 16, 2018, 07:16:49 AM

If we say that the Lightning Network is a 2cnd layer application, targeted at micro transactions, would we clearly define what constitutes a micro transaction first? I recently saw individual channels that are funded by +/- 37 bitcoins. Roll Eyes

This was my first impression of what the Lightning Network was developed for and that bigger transactions would still be done on-chain. In your view, would you say 1 bitcoin is a micro transaction?

Bitcoin on chain transactions will probably never scale above opening and closing lightning channels and swift style inter bank clearing. You know, in the longer term. That which doesn't fit on the first layer will be pushed off to the second. Simple as that.

Once a problem looks to be a challenge on first layer, one should firstly think of improving the infrastructure. Bitcoin is not a rigid, dead system. This infrastructure has more potentials to be unleashed and yet we have sharding solutions in the horizon as well. Sharding is a first layer protocol, an on-chain scalability solution.

Sharding is more elegant and beautiful compared to ugly complicated second layer solutions like LN, which completely abstracts users from the consensus algorithm, the way google, facebook, .... ruined the Internet and turned it to such a dangerous place for ordinary people by compromising their privacy and security. I suppose you guys have a same agenda for destroying bitcoin by putting people behind layers of abstraction.

It is an insane strategy. Bitcoin needs fresh breath to breath interaction with users and simplicity. Only a corporate employee would take second layer development serious, a hacker, just don't GAS. Wink

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Quote from: gentlemand on July 16, 2018, 12:48:43 PM

I would've thought machine to machine stuff is where lightning networks will end up shining.

Definitely. Imagine being able to bid for the transportation of discrete chunks of data. You just say "hey neighboring physical infrastructure nodes, I wan't this chunk of data to be transported to this address, who can do it the cheapest? who can do it the most quickly?" And your neighboring physical infrastructure nodes perform the same calculation, and the ones next to them the same calculation, et al. Then the price for each route comes cascading backwards all the way to each of the nodes that are physically adjacent to you and to you, you then pick your preferred trade off between price, bandwidth and latency. No need for data plans, almost impossible to censor, so much more private, and a network that could organically adapt to a living pulse of price signals. Heck even the north Korean government couldn't censor an internet like that. And that's surely just scratching the surface.

Good dreams, non of them feasible yet, who is in charge of routing this messages?
Anyway, what the hell is it? A 4th layer IP on bitcoin on tcp/ip on ip protocol? Grin

WTF, We are not trying to destroy Bitcoin, we are just discussing the Pro's and Con's of the technology and how to utilize it in the best manner to get the most out of it. I am saying, that the Lightning Network developers should consider defining, what a micro payment should be to utilize the system to it's full potential.

The parameters that are used now, is just temporary?