Quote from: aliashraf on July 17, 2018, 07:03:44 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on July 17, 2018, 06:42:08 AM

Quote from: aliashraf on July 17, 2018, 06:07:45 AM

Quote from: Kakmakr on July 17, 2018, 05:36:20 AM

Quote from: aliashraf on July 16, 2018, 07:57:51 PM

WTF, We are not trying to destroy Bitcoin, we are just discussing the Pro's and Con's of the technology and how to utilize it in the best manner to get the most out of it. I am saying, that the Lightning Network developers should consider defining, what a micro payment should be to utilize the system to it's full potential.

The parameters that are used now, is just temporary?

Yeah, you're already done with destroying bitcoin, I get it. Wink

Bitcoin is not an infrastructure, it is the system, remember? Projecting problems to the second layer, stacking up protocols on protocols leads to nowhere other than ruining bitcoin,

Ruining it how? Bitcoin is an open system that is open for developers to build tools on top of it. The Lightning Network is one such tool.

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turning it to something it was not meant to be.

Is that your argument? Hahaha.

You need to make a transaction onchain to open a Lightning channel, technically it is still functioning as it was meant to be.

And it is yours? hahaha

No, I learned it from "him".

It is his one and true "vision". Hahaha.

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For years, teaching noobs about bitcoin, I've been used to begin with telling them the Internet story and how its decentralized nature is hided from them by centralized services on top of it. Now what do I have tell to them? Like "Hey, Bitcoin is decentralized, don't worry, it is the fault of second layer protocols that you are being spied and censored"?

Post your credentials, and who are you if you stand by that claim of authority.

This has nothing to do with my credentials. I don't need any kind of authority and didn't claim it. I'm telling a simple story about how a decentralized infrastructure like tcp/ip turned to be hidden by centralized, second layer protocols and you don't understand a word of mine.

I'm not talking about LN, I'm against any second layer protocol on bitcoin, I maintain that bitcoin IS NOT an infrastructure it is a complete system, it should be, it is meant to be.

Off-chain/second layer solutions of any kind, by any name are just a statement of failure for bitcoin.

For a person that says that he "does not" need any authority, you are speaking as if you are an "authority". Why should we listen to you with that attitude?

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You guys are hypocrites, little, sneaky hypocrites. Instead of focusing on bitcoin as a system, an electronic P2P cash system, you are giving up with it and are rushing to LN as the solution, the shelter.

Then if someone takes the other side of the debate and challenges you, they are hypocrites?