Quote from: Zin-Zang on July 30, 2018, 07:26:23 AM

Quote from: DooMAD on July 29, 2018, 11:41:31 AM

Quote from: Pursuer on July 29, 2018, 05:03:49 AM

Quote from: DooMAD on July 28, 2018, 07:32:27 AM

[snipped]

dude why do you keep feeding this troll? Zin-Zang has been doing the same thing last year with SegWit and kept spreading nonsense about it like this but with a different account while advertising his altcoin. that account is banned now by the way and he is ban-evading right now.

It's undoubtedly easier for us to recognise that Zin-Zang is a troll, because we have the experience and knowledge to make an informed judgement. But it would be just as easy for anyone new to Bitcoin to be lured in by such posts and start believing something that's not true. Best to nip it in the bud. The last thing we need is a whole forum full of people claiming it's some sort of conspiracy to create "banking 2.0".

Wow , both of you think I am a troll, both of you luv bitcoin and both of you think LN is great
therefore according to Pursuer small world theory , you too must be the same person.

Nah, I have never been that lame as to believe people that shared the same views are all the same person.
Enjoy your conspiracy. Cheesy

P.S. I am Batman in my spare time. Wink

https://i.imgur.com/vRaulCN.gif
(Took 6 weeks for that leg to heal.) Tongue

@Pursuer,
Shame you can't tell the difference between someone speaking the truth and someone trolling.
But your problem , not mine.

LN is most definitely Banking 2.0 and multiple people have said this.
And I doubt they are all the same person.

Quote from: Wind_FURY on July 30, 2018, 05:51:29 AM

Quote from: Zin-Zang on July 27, 2018, 08:18:38 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on July 27, 2018, 06:26:21 AM

Quote from: Zin-Zang on July 27, 2018, 05:46:57 AM

Quote from: DooMAD on July 24, 2018, 11:07:20 AM

Quote from: Zin-Zang on July 21, 2018, 11:15:43 AM

Lightning network is a 3rd party offchain payment system

Would you care to name this supposed third party?

LOL, LN Hub operators.

Serious how did you not know that?

Guess it won't be apparent to you even when the LN Hub is Named Bank of America. Tongue

What can a "Bank of America" hub exactly do to Bitcoin if they become a Lightning Hub? Nothing. They can also do nothing on the Lightning Network itself because Bitcoins are locked in a multisig address when opening a channel. What it can do is build on top of Lightning and do anything they like but only from within their service.

Have the Funds to be a Centralized Hub that has the majority of channels to it directly , and refuse to open channels with hubs they or government policy disapproves of.
Therefore starving non-banking hubs of funds until they run them out of business and can have their own banking monopoly like with fiat. Wink

Guess it is not apparent to you either. Cheesy

But how will the state stop it if anyone can open channels all over the world and outside their jurisdiction? Your debate is lost.

Are you locked in a closet or do you have access to the internet?
How does the Government currently enforce AML/KYC laws, simple they have people that will arrest your ass.
And foreign governments have their own AML/KYC laws, that can get you arrested.

https://www.moneylaunderingwatchblog.com/category/extraterritorial-application-of-us-law/

Quote

DOJ Employs Money Laundering Statute to Prosecute Venezuelan Oilmen for Foreign Bribery

If you are thinking you live a free world, you are sadly mistaken.

*Ask Vinnik* Tongue

https://cointelegraph.com/news/new-extradition-request-complicates-case-of-bitcoin-fraud-suspect-alexander-vinnik

Quote

Vinnik, who is a former owner of crypto exchange BTC-e,
was arrested by Greek police in July 2017
under the order of the U.S. Department of Justice.
Authorities accused him of fraud and laundering as much as $4 billion in Bitcoin over the course of six years.

Quote from: Wind_FURY on July 30, 2018, 05:51:29 AM

Quote from: Zin-Zang on July 27, 2018, 08:18:38 AM

FYI:
Or just slip a few bucks to a few politicians to pass a law requiring all LN Hubs to require a Banking License and follow all KYC/AML laws.

Define banking license. No one is holding your money for you in Lightning. It will be the exchanges on top of Lightning that should be KYC/AML compliant. But it is the same set up that we have today, but more scalable because of Lightning.

Just because you guys try and twist the english language to suit your false beliefs , does not mean it will hold up in court.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4714938.msg43006363#msg43006363

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banking_license

Quote

full banking licenses for general banking activities, such as taking deposits from the general public

Banks used to hold Gold and Silver and use Banks notes & US Dollar Notes to allow redemption of gold & silver,
http://www.antiquemoney.com/value-of-10-gold-certificate/
Notice on the old Fiat it used to say $10 in GoldCoin

LN uses Multi signatures to hold Bitcoin (Time Locked) ,
LN uses their own notes system (ledger) to transfer balances between other LN hubs (No actual bitcoin is transacted , it is time locked remember).
Once the LN channels are closed (you can redeem your LN transactions for real bitcoin ONchain (may take up 2 weeks))

LN is exactly Banking 2.0 designed for crypto , with fees per hub , like banks charge fees.
Under the right circumstances a bank or LN hub can seize your funds.
Since LN balances are nothing more than a representation of a bitcoin, fractional reserve is possible in the future with a minor software update to LN.

Don't strain your brain,
I know you guys drank the kool-aid and believe all of the BS the core devs sprouted. Thinking is not your strong suit, otherwise you would have already come to these same conclusions.

And there has been a recent development, a thinking person can see the problem with LN.
https://medium.com/andreas-tries-blockchain/bitcoin-lightning-network-4-what-happens-when-you-close-half-of-the-lightning-network-b25b330dfad2

This guy placed $1000s of dollars worth of bitcoin in a time lock to run a LN hub for a few weeks.
His profit less than 35 cents, which if you factor in any of his input costs such as running a node or time monitoring his money, he came out at a massive loss.

LN has fees for each hub, fees for the watchtowers, plus the onchain fees.
For an LN hub to actually make any money , it is going to have to charge alot higher fees , meaning the promise of low fees , was a false promise once it actually gets operational, because stupid people can only work for free for so long before they go broke.

Now go drink your kool aid , and forget anyone ever told you the truth.
Because you can't handle the truth.

http://newsprom.ru/i/n/631/198631/tn_198631_1251597f1cf3.jpg

I agree more on-chain solutions, cross-chain liquidity/DEX/private smart contracts etc are needed.
Though I think extra layers can be useful, they should not compromise on fungibility/privacy or decentralization