Quote from: FenixRD on January 07, 2014, 08:50:09 AM

Quote from: Mattius459 on January 07, 2014, 08:41:26 AM

I own Bitcoin, idiot. Thanks for addressing the substance of my post though. Just kidding, you didn't. Anyone else here want to have a real discussion? I simply posted something that has been going through my mind for the last couple of weeks and I can't get over it. I am a relentless doubter, even if I want to believe in something. It is called critical thinking. Go join the legion of bitcoin zombies here, the grown-ups are having a discussion.

Certainly sounds adult of you. Your phrasing, tone, and attitude tell all. You might own some bitcoin. If you do it's because you think you are getting rich quick off suckers. That's okay, because Bitcoin is useful for those people too. It's a positive-sum game. Even with your attitude, the economy is better than if you behaved the same in the old-world monetary system.

This is the other key difference: Some folks here are firm economic atheists. They will try very hard to convert you to Bitcoin. Your argument will, if unchecked, devolve into a religious debate between atheists and monotheists. You're both theists. I'm agnostic. I'm pretty sure I'm right, and I'm going to use logic and reason and numbers to back that up. But in the end, the game theory of it also says that if I'm right, it doesn't matter if there are few staunch monotheistic folks running about. The science is unaffected, and eventually you'll catch up, or perish wasting your life on a false god rather than improving humanity.

What is your argument, then? It looks to me like you have decided to turn a blind eye to years of theory, much of it documented in this very forum. You certainly aren't asking anything new.

Thanks for all of those ten cent words, you are really impressing me. Could you do me a favor though and address my post about CC fees, BTC fees, and hidden costs? Maybe I'm double counting something? Maybe the added supply of BTC doesn't have as harsh affect on the market as I am seeing? Give me something that has math please.

Quote from: Mattius459 on January 07, 2014, 07:16:55 AM

Thanks for the responses. So we all agree that merchants will have to incentivize people to use BTC then? Not as sweet of a deal as it originally sounded for merchants, but overall it appears as though they can still save a percentage point or two overall. So far...

Consider this:

Bloomberg ran an interesting article the other day that pointed to the fact that the BTC network pays for itself by releasing a constant supply of coins into the market (to miners) which acts to constantly drive the price of BTC down. This amounts to approximately 3.9% at current volumes. ** This percentage will surely go down with an increase in volume and decrease in inflation over time, but still in my opinion, AT BEST it will be 1.5% over the next eight years or so.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-01-02/bitcoin-is-an-expensive-way-to-pay-for-stuff.html

So we have we have 1% deposit fee onto the consumer, and 2-3% onto the merchant as an "incentive fee" in order to compete with CC companies. This averages out to 1.5-2% sum fee to both parties collectively. Put this on top of the 1.5(ideal)-3.9%(actual) fee exacted upon the markets by the maintenace of the BTC network, and we have a total of 3-5.9% overall cost to do business in BTC.

Getting expensive.

Would love to hear any and all responses. Thanks for your time.

** You can calculate this fee by taking daily bitcoins released (3600) and dividing it by the total daily volume in BTC. See this chart:
https://blockchain.info/charts/cost-per-transaction-percent