Quote from: vy99 on August 07, 2018, 11:03:49 PM

Quote from: iasenko on August 07, 2018, 10:52:11 PM

Great, finally a good discussion here.

1. I'm not saying that my approach of price calculation is the best approach. It was just an example.

2. I don't want to see the Bitcoin as an investment tool, an asset or Audi/lambo as suggested. Yeah the current situation is like this but the whole idea is not to HODL your bitcoins in a hope for the Moon or even Mars / well everyone does it, including me/ but to use them as a tool in the day life. I prefer to see it is a currency like the USD or EUR.

3.You won't buy dollars just to put them in a jar under your bed for a few years in a hope to rise their value. You gonna buy them because for example you are going to the US on vacation and you plan to spend them til the last cent.
In order this to happen to the Bitcoin too, the price has to be determined on another factor different than the ones we have today.

World of HODLers is devastating for the Bitcoin, I'm sure Satoshi won't be happy with it.

We are in the very beginning of the Crypto money and I hope that this dark period will be over soon.

Yeah I mentioned this in another post but there's a catch-22 when it comes to Bitcoin. In order for the price to go up it has to be used (spent) but when the price goes up it causes people to hold on to their Bitcoin so they can cash out for the "lambo" or whatever.

Unfortunately the original intention of Bitcoin (digital currency to disrupt the financial status quo) is going out the window with all the speculators and people who see a get-rich-quick scheme.

My hope is that one day the price will stabilize and when people see that it's not skyrocketing (or plummeting) they'll be inclined to using it more than they do now

Absolutely correct! Bitcoin has become an investment asset now than a currency system. So we have long diverted from the original thought of becoming a de-centralized p2p currency free of regulations and middle man. That's where we have precisely became a part of the speculation game. I am not denying the fact that I also have bitcoins in my cold storage with the similar hope, but I also don't have any space where I can use my bitcoins to purchase anything from any merchant, at least in my country!

To be able to spend bitcoins as a currency system to purchase goods or services, we need merchants to accept it as a payment option. This is largely missing in today's scenario. Everytime I want to purchase something, I have to convert the required amount of bitcoin into fiat and then I use it for the purchase. That's why it is not helping the crypto economy because we have very very limited options to use cryptos directly. To change this mindset, we need merchants to will accept bitcoin for everyday goods.

Quote from: iasenko on August 07, 2018, 02:08:58 PM

Tired to see only spammy mega-threads in the section that's why I'll try to start a normal one with this question.

If you think about it, the price is reflection of the bitcoin supply and demand based only on the available exchanges.
You can directly trade at whatever price you like.
What can be done?

Would't be better if the price reflects the real effort to "create" (mine) the bitcoin, or the effort to support the network like the electricity costs + hardware investments etc.

I know this is almost impossible to accurately calculate it but still it will be closer to the real value than to the speculative one "controlled" by the exchanges.

This is innovative technology and is should not relay only on the "old traditions" of price forming, we need a new revolutionary way to balance it, this is the only way to be world-wide accepted.

The whole idea of bitcoin is to be decentralize, but you have enough amount of bitcoins the price can easily be controlled.
We have seen already many such cases, and there are more to come.

What you think?

P.S. This is self-moderated thread, I will remove any comments that I suspect to be just a sig.spam. If you not agree with this condition, better don't post here.

Secondly to the OP's point, it is only possible if the miners come together and decide that they will not sell off their bitcoins under a certain price. But it is very easy to say but very difficult to execute! To reach a global consensus of this level is not easy at all! The big exchanges can help with this decision but it will slump their business down, so they will not help either. The only choice left is the free market decision and that's what exactly we are following now!

I would love to see if anyone can suggest a revolutionary way to balance the price based on the production cost and stabilize it. As of now, I don't see any alternate route than to follow the free market dynamics which is somewhat influenced by the whales. As a small trader, our influence power is next to zero and we can only submit ourselves to the current market dynamics. Absolutely helpless here!