Quote from: suchmoon on August 09, 2018, 01:23:29 AM

On the other hand, we wouldn't want to falsely categorize otherwise unrelated people living at the same address (e.g. roommates) as "partners" and reduce their UBI, right? This gets very complicated very quickly.

You're not wrong but I feel any system that looks to encompass a large group of people living in inequality will be complex in nature. The checks and balances of this system would again have to be hammered out by the administering government, and be open to adapting to changing circumstances. Admittedly something governments are becoming worse at as time goes on. For my country it would probably fall into the category of filing tax returns that would help to decide what is a couple or not, again there will be the couples that are "roomates" for life. No matter the system for regulating anything there will be those who find a way around it.

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Overall the main thing making me extremely skeptical towards UBI is that it is loved both by bright-red socialists and hardcode libertarians, which seems to indicate that the idea is unworkable in practice.

Skepticism is healthy, and needed in any good debate. Anyone who goes into something like this without an open mind towards failure or success will at some point only hinder the development of the project. I personally don't reject an idea based on who is for or against it, regardless of my opinion,but I tend to try and see the points of failure. This has helped me personally with planning, developing and learning in general.

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Or we could focus on what has been working reasonably well if not perfectly, e.g. improving education, healthcare, public safety, infrastructure, etc to give people a better chance at upward mobility plus a decent safety net, boring as it may be.

Agreed, boring doesn't mean bad. It has been shown that education is one of the best things you can do to help raise a nation. The majority of what you mentioned as well help create jobs, which usually accompany a program to bring unemployed persons back into the workforce; or provide low to medium skilled workers for a chance at upgrading.

Personally I have no problem admitting that my mother required the social safety nets in place to provide for us at some points in her life. She also took the opportunities that were presented to her, to upgrade and built a great career for herself. Based on my upbringing I've seen both the failures and successes of the system. This is why I will never agree with doing nothing to try and help elevate people and their situations, and the solution isn't always just handing out a check.

Been a great discussion. I feel the differing opinions and ideals seen here are exactly what need to be in place when the powers that be are deciding how to proceed. Unfortunately I feel we've been more open-minded and respectful in our discussions here than many governments prove to be.

Quote from: Flying Hellfish on August 08, 2018, 11:31:30 PM

LOL I can only dream I have enough LOL. I want more don't get me wrong, I would like nothing more than to be able to provide my wife and kids with a substantial nest egg should something happen to me (like the deep state lizzard pedo's taking a hit out on me Wink

!!!!!!!!!) but I don't want it from people with much less than I currently have!

It's good to dream and there is nothing wrong with wanting more regardless of being single or having a family. I can understand the wanting to make sure a family is covered no matter what happens. Another nice bonus, to a UBI or other programs.

You obviously forgot your tinfoil hat, and to spin around 3 times in each doorway before turning on your computer if they know where to take a hit out. Wink