Quote from: cellard on August 09, 2018, 04:00:12 PM

Quote from: Wild_Potato on August 09, 2018, 03:16:37 PM

Quote from: figmentofmyass on August 06, 2018, 05:00:27 PM

Quote from: cellard on August 06, 2018, 03:40:36 PM

This is big, very big, similar to an ETF approved. You will be able to buy Bitcoin easily, all the computer illiterate boomers that just can't get their heads around downloading a wallet and securing the coins, will be able to get Bitcoin exposure. And they seem to be serious: No shitcoins, only Bitcoin.

meh, this sounds like more empty hype (just like the ETFs). "if you build it, they will come!"

you assume there is all this latent demand for bitcoin exposure that is waiting on the sidelines---why? it's not how the human mind (and therefore markets) work. people and institutions who want bitcoin exposure because of its astronomical gains don't say to themselves, "no problem, i'll just wait 2 years or 6 years for the right derivative security product to be approved by the SEC!" lol. and there isn't much volume in the regulated swaps and futures markets. what makes this so different?

also, it's not all good news. like you said, all this latent demand you think exists is from people who don't understand the point of BTC anyway. we like to think people understand the difference between "real assets" and "paper assets" but most don't. and if there is so much latent demand for paper bitcoins, as you suggest, that opens big opportunities for spot market manipulation, just like the gold markets: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4826941.msg43553439#msg43553439

Most people are missing this point and I don't understand why. Putting Bitcoin into the mainstream for mass adoption is the worst thing we could do next to allowing the banks to write papers on thin air and call them Bitcoin. These rascals are just trying to get their hands into the asset so they can create an infinitive supply of it. The whole principle of Bitcoin depends on its limited supply!

Also, just because it is implemented in November doesn't necessarily mean that it will start going on a monstrous bull run at that time. If speculators really believed it, it would be moving already.

Im not sure what you are talking about. Excuse me but how the fuck is the government able to create an infinite supply out of it? just because they can issue whatever-government-backed scam as Bitcoin doesn't mean it's actual Bitcoin therefore as far as real Bitcoin is concerned the supply remains the same.

My point is, we CANNOT avoid the government doing whatever they want to do about it. So why not profit from their price manipulation? Long term physics remain: There are 21 million Bitcoins top, and fiat has unpayable debt clusterfuck sitting on top of it like a grey cloud. Long term it doesn't matter, short term it does because you can profit from it by buying and selling at the right times to increase your BTC count which is all that matters.

Simple: Futures contracts. They've been doing it with gold for years. If an investor takes a position on the market with gold, there is no impact on the supply because the bank simply hands over a paper (not even that anymore) and has no obligation to back it physically. But it directly impacts the price. So traders from Deutsche bank, Citi, Credit Suisse, JP Morgans, etc. can get together and take massive short positions. Then, despite there being 21 million bitcoins that should be expanding in value, there is now a very heavy ceiling pushing them down.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-25/ex-deutsche-bank-traders-charged-in-expanding-spoofing-probe

Oh and fiat's debt clusterfuck certainly seems bad, but it's (attempting) to be balanced by the GDP. In the US a 21 trillion debt vs an 18.57 trillion GDP isn't as bad as it seems, although it most certainly is unsustainable in the long run. So yes, we should be buying the dips.