Quote from: d5000 on August 17, 2018, 03:13:07 AM

Quote from: pitiflin on August 16, 2018, 11:43:43 PM

Bitcoin has become an asset purely driven by speculation.

True. I would even say it hasn't "become" that, but it has been so since at least 2013. But is this really good for Bitcoin ? My intention is to (help to) change that.

It is not good for bitcoin, but you or me can't change that. The entire community needs to come together for that, and that will never happen. One of the main reasons for bitcoin to become more of an asset, is because of the recession. I mean, who would even bother to give a fuck to use bitcoin as a currency when they can get rich from it? People are taking advantage of the entire decentralized system and it bit us right in the ass.

Quote from: d5000 on August 17, 2018, 03:13:07 AM

Quote

And more buy orders doesn't mean people are buying more. It can simply mean that one person is placing multiple buy orders and selling them immediately, or in a short while.

You misunderstood me. What you say is pretty obvious. I was mentioning merchants offering goods and services because they can be thought of like buy orders. The more merchants accepting BTC, the more demand for BTC. Even if they're using BitPay or a similar payment processor (and so they aren't "backing" Bitcoin themselves), BitPay's demand for Bitcoin increases in this case.

Even if Merchants start accepting bitcoin, the demand won't rise much. Hear me out here, not everybody likes to spend their bitcoin on normal stuff that you can buy with cash. A very few people actually like spending their bitcoin and only they will spend their bitcoin. Most of the what you'd call "hodlers" won't spend a damn satoshi. What we need is to change the community's mindset, if that happens, everything would go accordingly , things will go how satoshi planned to.

Quote from: d5000 on August 17, 2018, 03:13:07 AM

Quote from: pitiflin on August 16, 2018, 11:43:43 PM

ETF ruins bitcoin's purpose. It makes people think bitcoin is an actual asset(it qualifies as an asset, since currencies are also taken as assets in accounting terms but in economical terms it isn't). You're using a centralized third party to get sheet of paper that says you own this much bitcoin. Do you see the amount of irony?

I mostly agree, but I wouldn't say that ETFs "ruin" Bitcoin's purpose. In reality, an ETF has nothing to do with Bitcoin's "value proposal". But an ETF can also not be prevented. If Wall Street wants to gamble with BTC, there's nothing we can do. However, I would not overestimate the influence an ETF can have. It could increase volatility temporally, but it could also be the other way around.

ETF makes bitcoin a literal asset, and by asset , I mean not in terms of cash but in terms of an investment. ETF for bitcoin is unnecessary. There's nothing we can do, but the SEC can, but those Wall Street bastards definitely have connections inside the SEC. Well, all I can say is, fuck the bitcoin ETF, and fuck the Wall Street bastards. Angry

Quote from: d5000 on August 17, 2018, 03:13:07 AM

Quote from: pitiflin on August 16, 2018, 11:43:43 PM

People are treating bitcoin as a stock, and not as a currency,like I said.

And that's not good, like I said Grin

So let's fucking rage! Grin

Quote from: d5000 on August 17, 2018, 03:13:07 AM

Quote from: pitiflin on August 16, 2018, 11:43:43 PM

And if you still don't realize that bitcoin is only driven by news(along with demand and supply) nowadays, you need to start catching up. Last year's bitcoin gold forks drove people to insane amounts to buy bitcoin and Jamie Dimon's criticism drove people to crash bitcoin, if that isn't news driven speculation, then I don't know what is.

Again. There is a lot of news driven speculation, yes. The purpose of this thread is to change something. If you want to continue with the news-driven, stock-like boom-bust cycles it's up to you but then BTC will bubble and crash again and again. The community should, imo, change its mentality a bit. Less get-rich-quick scheme, more currency usage. Then Bitcoin will eventually grow organically. It's true, we need some technical solutions to achieve mass adoption, but LN is slowly maturing and in 1-2 years it can be stable enough for everyday usage.

A little bit? People need to stop looking at bitcoin like "Get rich scheme", LN is too slow, and not many people are into it, almost 75% of the "community" don't know what it is.