Quote from: markj113 on August 23, 2018, 10:59:48 PM

Also the elite already own the gold so why would they make it worthless and start over with bitcoin?

Because they want to move to a world central bank that subjugates all the nation-states. Again this increases human cooperation on a global scale while also increasing entropy by disintemediating (i.e. creative destruction of their own control over nation-state central banks) nation-states (which were well suited for the agricultural and industrial ages but ill suited to the Internet knowledge age) so as to enable massive proliferation of separation movements so that we end up with 1000s of tribes again run by a single NWO government. This will come in stages over time, first as a weakening of nation-states and regional trade and currency union blocs (e.g. European Union, Asian Union, NATFA, etc) before the ultimate dissolution of nation-states entirely.

Remember George Gilder explained in that Youtube link somewhere in Shelby's post about the book The Bitcoin Standard, that nature requires a low entropy channel in order to increase entropy overall. This is how cooperation elevates. So we need for example the Internet to not be random, so that we can have more random creations going on on the Internet. Ditto the monetary and governance conduit of human civilization.

So in order to accomplish this while avoiding resistance from the existing entrenched politics in nation-states, they needed a way to disrupt the monetary system of the world with an emergent, bottom-up process that can't be detected as what it will really become. Ergo Bitcoin.

Gold is the old system of nation-state central bank reserves. But gold was pretty much phased out already with US Treasury bonds largely replacing gold in reserves. And now Bitcoin will put the final nail in the coffin for gold.

Quote from: markj113 on August 24, 2018, 12:06:18 PM

Quote from: Febo on August 24, 2018, 11:55:05 AM

I agree. Silver is problem to store even on Earth.

thats what gold is for.

A $40k bar is the size of a smart phone.

And Bitcoin will rise to $million+ so that $40k will only buy you a ham sandwich in the future. Gold is going the way of the Dodo bird. But it will "rise" to maybe $3000 $5000 one more time before it goes into a precipitous terminal decline in value.

The demise of gold may not be complete until some decades from now, yet even on this cycle of Western civilization collapse before 2033, its very likely the government will make it impossible for you to redeem your gold for fiat. Capital controls are coming. And there wont be any blackmarket for it at all and nobody with Bitcoin is going to accept your gold, because when the governments clamp down on gold, nobody will want that shit because you cant move that bar across any nation-state border or checkpoint.

Whereas, BTC will always be in demand because it can be transported electronically to a favorable jurisdiction.

This is the bottom line and explains that @realr0ach is loony.

Those who doubt that technology reduces the value of metals over time should note the loss of demand for platinum due to the rise of electric cars resulting in a plummeting price.

Quote from: STT on August 23, 2018, 09:17:06 PM

Quote from: Traxo on August 23, 2018, 08:57:34 PM

Quote from: markj113 on August 23, 2018, 06:14:41 PM

You still havent explained why the NWO would bother buying up all existing bitcoin kicking everyone else off the blockchain when they have access to all this free hash power and could just launch NWO-coin with zero initial outlay for their own uses.

You seem to not understand that the masses will be kicked off because when BTC rises to $million+ then transaction fees in excess of $5000 (perhaps as high as $50,000) per transaction.
TPTB pay the fees to themselves since they are also eventually the miners. TPTB dont need to buy Bitcoin from the masses, the masses will pay it to them as transaction fees.

This represents inefficiency then, every free capitalist market is driven by efficiency in line with profitable arbitrage. To have a build up of transaction fees represented failure I think. I really see this as a problem for BTC overall, that it has a rising cost of processing is not ok.

However I think the protocol can be developed further and will harness technology to become more able for the same price.

You didnt coherently assimilate what I told you before which is that Bitcoin is not intended to scale transaction volume.

If Bitcoins protocol were able to be modified to increase the block size to allow more transactions, then it would lose the game theory protection that insures it will always be limited to 21 million tokens. That deflationary assurance is Bitcoins raison d'être.

The game theory of Bitcoin is designed such that it is impossible to change the protocol. Core attempted to do so, but Satoshi put a poison pill in his design that will cause Core tokens to be donated to the miners in the future. IOW, the Core "Bitcoin" is an imposter and is not the Satoshis v0.53 real Bitcoin. Theymos allowed Gregory Maxwell et al (i.e. Blockstream) to hijack this forum and bitcoin.org. This is ostensibly the real reason Shelby is banned, because he was exposing the truth.

If you go back and click my links, you will find that Shelby (as @anunymint) had explained in great detail why Cores changes to Bitcoin actually are an altcoin. Satoshis v0.53 real Bitcoin is actually still running simultaneously with Core on the same chain, but when the SegWit donations start, then Core will hardfork off away from the real Bitcoin. At that point, everyone who had their BTC stored in SegWit addresses that start with a 3 will donate their real BTC to the miners. They will only keep their Core altcoin tokens. Those who instead store in Satoshi Bitcoin addresses that start with a 1 will keep both the real BTC and get a free airdrop of Core altcoin tokens. I provided the links up-thread that cover all this information in great detail.

The transaction scaling and other features that blockchains can provide will come from altcoins, not Bitcoin. That is why Shelby is working on an altcoin, because he thinks he has figured out how to insure decentralization with proof-of-stake. Nobody else has solved that problem yet. He mentioned his solution in the comments of the following linked blog:

https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@anonymint/scaling-decentralization-security-of-distributed-ledgers-part-4

Quote from: STT on August 23, 2018, 09:17:06 PM

I do expect BTC to either improve or lose the game to another parallel innovation [...] If you would believe BTC replaces gold in this elite wealth idea, then what would be in the position of silver or copper for the masses in that scenario ?

You conflated separate concerns. The NWO reserve currency will not be the token that the masses use onchain. Remember Greshams Law that bad (inferior) money drives good money out-of-circulation e.g. paper money and debt-based fiat drove precious metals out-of-circulation (even zinc-clad copper dimes drove silver dimes out-of-circulation). The masses will be transacting offchain (e.g. Lightning Networks but this has serious security and soundness issues) or an altcoin. These bad forms of money will not be as good of a store-of-value (i.e. they may be inflationary, have dubious security, be fiats, etc) as Bitcoin but they will scale better.

Quote from: realr0ach on August 24, 2018, 02:02:40 AM

Don't bother responding to Anonymint about metals. All he's doing is praying shitcoins win and metals don't go up because he owns shitcoins and no metals. He's just a disinformation agent at this point. Anyone with a clue about markets knows metals are currently in one of the largest inverse bubbles in world history and the upcoming metals bull run will be that of legend:

Quote from: realr0ach on August 24, 2018, 01:33:08 AM

Since most of you guys are JayJuanGee-level economists, let me go ahead and tell you the fair market value of the DOW is 8500-9000. So expect it to probably drop below that when it does crash before rebounding, assuming the PPT doesn't just implement full blown communism and prints their own number. The insider info is [...]

Shelby says, youve lost all your marbles.

Do you really believe that PPT nonsense promulgated by guys with an IQ below 130. Shelby says he communicated with all those famous goldbug personalities in email in the past. All of them, including Peter Schiff. They arent very intelligent.

The North American stock markets and dollar are rising because of the strong dollar-short vortex. It's an international stampede of capital into the safe haven of the dollar as interest rates rise and the economic collapse of Europe accelerates. Also Chinas real estate bubble is popping right now and Asia will not bottom until 2020ish. Europe and the West will not bottom for many decades. The USA will also economically collapse after the period of the strong dollar-short vortex has peaked. Shelby has been telling you this for the past years and he has continued to be correct while you continued to make a fool of yourself by being perpetually incorrect, including when you sold BTC at $600 to buy silver at $20.

You are already 40 times poorer than you were in 2016. If you dont sell that idiotic silver and buy BTC now, you are going to be another 10 times poorer perhaps by 2019 (assuming Bitcoin attains a new ATH then and not after 2020).

Metals are going to go back up, but you are delusional if you believe that nonsense about a silver shortage. Silver will never, never ever have the level of moonshot that will get you back to what you lost already. You should not double-down on that mistake.

Here's an education for readers about your "PPT" (plunge protection team) delusions. The manipulations are only short-term in nature, because they always blow in the face of the banksters.

The Long Term Capital Management scam that involved Russia, Yeltsin, the $8 billion from the IMF, HSBC, Hermitage Capital, Clinton Foundation, and Martin Armstrong (he was framed and jailed for 7 years unconstitutionally) blew up in the face the banksters and is tied into the current Mueller investigation (c.f. also this blog) of Trump implicating Russia. Here is more on manipulation from Armstrong:

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/uncategorized/comment-from-a-reader-manipulations/
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/uncategorized/metals-perpetually-suppressed/
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/uncategorized/derivatives-the-real-story/
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/markets-by-sector/precious-metals/silver/do-commitment-of-traders-inventories-really-matter/
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/uncategorized/are-markets-manipulated-all-the-time/
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/armstrongeconomics101/understanding-cycles/market-manipulations-the-greatest-scam-of-all-time/
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/uncategorized/gata-gold-manipulations/
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/markets-by-sector/precious-metals/gold/do-people-hear-only-what-they-want-to-hear/
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/uncategorized/regulators-assist-banks-in-manipulations/
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/uncategorized/aluminum-manipulation-leads-to-lawsuits-against-goldman-etc-the-days-of-proprietary-trading-are/
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/qa/time-for-a-change-in-reasoning/
https://www.google.com/search?q=site:armstrongeconomics.com+PhiBro+silver

Quote from: Febo on August 24, 2018, 06:09:07 PM

Quote from: markj113 on August 24, 2018, 12:06:18 PM

Quote from: Febo on August 24, 2018, 11:55:05 AM

I agree. Silver is problem to store even on Earth.

thats what gold is for.

A $40k bar is the size of a smart phone.

I understand that. And even in my country my government says so since Gold is tax free, but silver is not. But whenever i go i read how gold silver rate is to high as it was in past and should get closer. So people speculate buying solver is better then gold. But when you think how to store and handle it then , ...

Sorry those people who talk about the silver-gold ratio are idiots. They look at a multi-dimensional manifold and conclude that only one dimension is in effect. IOW, they are full of shit and just looking at a 1D projection of reality. Thus their prayers are just praying for the broken stuck clock to be correct twice a day:

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/markets-by-sector/precious-metals/gold/gold-ratios-are-they-really-worth-much/
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/markets-by-sector/precious-metals/gold/gold-silver-the-view/
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/markets-by-sector/precious-metals/gold/dowgold-ratio/

Be very wary of following the advice of people with low IQs who dont even consider the scientific method when they make their proclamations of ignorance couched as some "truth".