Quote from: MedaR on August 31, 2018, 11:50:04 AM

Quote from: dmwardjr on August 31, 2018, 11:24:58 AM

Exactly how is ZEN CHAT going to work on a phone anyway? I understand they will have an app maybe for your phone. Tell me exactly how that's going to keep the NSA, Apple, Samsung, etc... away from still seeing every single keystroke you make? The ONLY way to keep key strokes encrypted is to stroke keys on an external hardware device; like Trezor for example. Your key strokes can easily be seen on a desktop, laptop and mobile phone by other means before it's sent through an app to be encrypted and go on the blockchain.

The ONLY way ZEN is going to pull this off is to create an external hardware device.

Is someone going to honestly carry around an external hardware device to connect to their mobile phone via bluetooth to chat to someone by typing on that external hardware device? Good luck getting people to do that.

If people want their data PRIVATE, they would need to keep it on a different external device that encrypts the data before the data actually goes through another device and ride on the internet. No?

So, once again, for ZEN to actually pull this off, they will need to create an external hardware device. Preferably a device that doubles as an unlocked mobile phone with the ability to work on any carrier and connect to the ZEN blockchain via a data link. Why preferably a mobile phone? Because most people will not want to carry around multiple pieces of hardware for the sake of privacy. Most don't even care about their privacy at the expense of convenience.

The downside to creating an encrypted mobile device to keep ALL your data PRIVATE is people should not download other apps to that device that could potentially spy on them or take their coins. They won't be able to play games on their encrypted mobile phone if they're into that kind of thing. Again, ZEN is forced to wrestle with solving the issue of "inconvenience" using such a device for the sake of privacy. I would if someone made it available. My major concern in that case would be, "Is this another Cook telling us our data is protected, when in reality it's not? In the end, the user would have to TRUST the word of the manufacturer and/or provider that there really is no way for ANYONE to have a key to the encryption to actually see our data, etc...

Bottom line, if people actually want PRIVACY, the best way to have it is by not ever letting it touch the internet without first going through a hardware device and you TRUST the creator of that hardware device that they are not being paid under the table to provide a key to unlock the data from a government agency.

Monero, has PROVEN their commitment to ASIC resistance and LOYALTY to its community by their ACTIONS. What has ZEN proven? That they will sell out their community in favor of larger manufacturers who will dominate mining. Who's to say they will not also sell out users of their so-called PRIVATE services to government agencies for dollar bill?

If I'm wrong, please correct me...

ZenChat is the most secure messaging application on the market and can be used as a standalone product or embedded within our Wallets.
Users are able to communicate 1-on-1, through group messaging, or set up dedicated private channels. Channel communication costs a minimal amount of ZEN to prevent clutter and spam.

ZenChat messages are stored permanently in the blockchain to prevent metadata leakage and are encrypted with algorithms such as AES-256 with Perfect Forward Secrecy (PFS), matching current standards of encryption for secure communication. Secure Nodes communication relay is non-traceable.

https://www.horizen.global/zenchat/

https://github.com/ZencashOfficial/ZENChat/releases

By typing on what device that's "stand alone?" What piece of hardware do you have available to connect to a desktop, laptop or mobile device to encrypt what you type before it goes through that device [encrypted] onto the blockchain?

Sounds like a damn political talking point to me.

So damn what they are stored permanently in the blockchain. I'm sure the NSA stores them as well from key strokes before they ever hit your damn blockchain.

WHY the hell do you think Trezor has a hardware device to encrypt data BEFORE it goes through a device to go to the blockchain?

BECAUSE THEY UNDERSTAND HOW HACKERS and GOVERNMENTS CAN SEE DAMN KEYSTROKES

PRIVACY is not as cut and dry as some of you make it out to be!

Apple says our data is protected on an iPhone. Yet, the NSA can easily see EVERYTHING in that iPhone without it being unlocked. They can hear people talking even when you THINK the phone is off. All of that crap in the news a while back with CNN and others acting like they were mad at Apple for not allowing the FBI to have a master key to all iPhones to unlock iPhones was nothing but a Psy-Opp. They want the population to think our data is safe on an iPhone when that is further from the truth.

Here's another example: If you have a smart meter on the side of your house to measure your power consumption, that smart meter can be used to convert longitudinal currents on the power line into metallic currents used by the device [and visa-versa] to hack into your lap top or desktop WITHOUT IT CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET VIA CONVENTIONAL SOURCES; such as telephone or cable modems. Your device CAN be connected to via the power outlet the moment you connect it to power to charge it up. There is more to the smart meters on the sides of our homes and businesses than the population is aware of. I bet you didn't know that did you? I worked in intelligence in the Marine Corp. You'll be SURPRISED what the government can do.

The power companies were actually trying to get a license to provide internet to customers a few years back but it was denied by the FCC. Why? Because intelligence did not want the cat out of the bag about how they can access devices through the power line without you being connected to the internet via conventional means. The government can spy on you through a device the moment that device is connected to a power source. Especially, if the power source is monitored by a smart meter.

To take that previous example about connecting to devices through power lines a bit further: If an agent needs access to a computer held by a terrorist in a country without smart meters, they have to use actual feet on the ground with access to the terrorist power in their building or home to then connect a device to their power line to gain access wirelessly from a safe location to hack their computer the moment it's plugged into power. The terrorist thinks they are safe not connecting to the internet with that device with sensitive information but they are sadly mistaken.

I was actually curious about how ZEN was going to pull this off with PRIVACY of all our data. Because I "KNOW" it's NOT possible without a hardware device that's encrypted before it's connected to any other device. Yes, ZEN would be able to keep users data private from most people. But from governments or institutions with the means and the knowhow to see our data, it's not cut and dry as most people might think.

Right now, all I'm seeing/hearing is a marketing ploy to get adoption with fancy slogans and artwork. I have yet to see any REAL SOLUTIONS from this project to actually keep our data private from governments and institutions with the means and the knowhow to access our data.