Quote from: FUKT on January 14, 2014, 08:01:31 PM

Quote from: PuertoLibre on January 14, 2014, 03:19:20 PM

Quote from: jspielberg on January 14, 2014, 09:27:28 AM

Quote from: dhenson on January 14, 2014, 08:19:10 AM

Quote from: Gandalfs Mentor on January 14, 2014, 08:11:09 AM

Check or product??? Sleep Well Huh

I used the door tag to track the package and just like I thought, it originated in San Francisco.

It's a FedEx Envelope...

I'm beginning to wonder if they are shipping to those customers that paid direct BTC payments without going through Bitpay. It would make sense for them to try to payoff those that had the best chance of winning arbitration.

That would be a good working theory... I only got a forced refund on my later direct btc order rather than my very early bitpay order (so far).

Did you ask for a refund (in any form)?

I was frankly excited at first thinking it was the miner since I hadn't any contact with the company. When the FedEx guy came back with an envelope, I knew it was not going to be good. Then I felt like an idiot for rushing to the FedEx office thinking I was going to be mining tonight to start digging out from the hole.

Can someone draw up a basic letter for folks to use if they are receiving unsolicited USD refunds/or a settlement offer that refutes the return of BTC property?

It's probably time to send them notice that their settlement offer is "refused".

Just a quick question. If hashfast converted the btc he received for payment into USD then how is he supposed to pay back the same btc at todays rates. For example, lets say he received 8 million in payments and half of that was Btc, to pay back half of that at todays rates would mean he now owes everyone 40 million in btc.

HashFast would have to prove that they didn't store the BTC somewhere. They would have to prove that they converted it at an exchange. In very early transactions, they had BTC addresses for recieving BTC. With no exchange in between. Only later did they establish an intermediary to convert it for them automatically.

What HashFast does with it's BTC is it's business. They may elect to send it to an exchange to convert it for them. But when a BTC paying customer pays with BTC to a BTC wallet, it's their (the customers) property until they recieve the delivery. If they request a refund before delivery then, HashFast has to turn over that BTC property sans any decisions they might have dabbled in with customer property.

What Hashfast appears to have done is elected to convert BTC to USD at an unknown date and time. Apparently [I speculate] using customer property to dabble at exchanges. This is a big no-no as they can't touch funds with a pre-order until they are delivered.

They never delivered, for some early customers there was no automatic exchange to USD via a payment processor and they have received notice that the customer intends to have their property returned to them. So the customer shouldn't care what HashFast decided to do internally with their property as long as the property is returned to them in the same quantity and likeness.

All this is HashFasts problem. The customer(s) who fit a specific scenario had plenty of [public and private] assurances that their property would be returned to them if they received no delivery.

Now HashFast is claiming (by actions) that they apparently took it upon themselves to convert customer property to a cash form and are offering an insignificant fraction of the properties worth in USD.

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In my opinion, HashFast has to prove and show records that they conducted a transaction with a third party and converted those funds (at their own election) to USD.

Then once proven, they (the customer) should tell them tough luck on what they speculated with that property. This is the property I have given you, what you did with it is none of my buisiness. Return what I gave you after you have defaulted on your delivery.

End of story.

Others who used a payment processor are probably out of luck. (Assuming HashFast did prove they converted it through the payment processor into USD and the customer has receipts from the payment processor of the transaction being conducted and converted.)