Quote from: suchmoon on September 02, 2018, 06:30:45 PM

Quote from: bill gator on September 02, 2018, 05:55:47 PM

I thought that even the 3,000 BTC amount was speculation. I'm clearly not helping solve anything and very likely missing vital chunks of information. I also thought the alts were forked and exchanged when the value was much more insignificant and that 60% was to be spent on development. I may have read through the entire thread, but my reading comprehension must be beyond salvageable.

I'll just bow this one out.

3000+ was the valuation at the time of ICO, which the token distribution was based on. Actual exchange value was likely lower - perhaps in the 2700 BTC range but I can't say that I know the exact number.

30% was to be distributed to the development team immediately after the ICO (first milestone) and another 30% after the release of beta wallet (2nd milestone), leaving 40% in escrow.

1400 / 3100 is 45% and 1400 / 2700 is 52%, i.e. it passes a basic smell test: the refund covered more than the escrow was supposed to hold. The extra funds have been presumably gained from forks and the 2nd milestone not being completely distributed due to some internal disputes.

At this point it would seem that whoever wants to accuse Lauda et al of wrongdoing should come up with evidence, not the other way round. Otherwise this could go on for years with random people claiming that the refund should have been 10 BTC or 100 BTC or 1000 BTC higher.

Seems rather stupid to say your last couple sentences. An escrow should have btc/altcoin amounts in something like an excel spreadsheet with proper accounting / tracking. Very easy to press Ctrl C and Ctrl V on their keyboards and post it here. This isn't just about how the ICO is being run, it falls back on the CET ( Crypto Escrow Team ) and how they conduct their business with no transparency. This will effect further business for them.

Your basic smell test just had a 400 bitcoin discrepancy. Nice one. (Guess what? with proper transparency you wouldn't need to be sniffing around, we'd have the exact numbers to talk about and help with this situation.)

It sounds like the "proper" communication channels so far have heavy bias and if you question the wrong founder/other founder/escrow then you are removed from said telegram/slack/other mode of communication. Which is likely why some of the investors only have bitcointalk.org left to find their answers. Aswell the official website has been claimed to have the ability to act nefarious in this situation so that is also not a proper means of communication for most.

If any single investor has no other way to find information about this project and what is happening besides bitcointalk then it is owed to them to be able to find what they need here. The ICO took place here, the Crypto Escrow Team has their roots set in here and was probably chosen based on what the ICO team had seen here. Now you have outsiders that commonly use escrow and members involved in this that are watching this from afar wondering WTF is this the kind of transparency I'm going to get in a dispute?

I sure as hell bet the founders of this failed project have all the information, but guess what.. they're the ones that had an internal problem and failed the people that funded their project. Therefore these escrows now work for the investors. Guess who gets snipped on an lipped off by the escrow when they ask for transparency? The investors.

Let's not forget either that no answers were ever given here and Lauda flipped off most people asking questions until suchmoon entered the fray. This trust system is shit but I can only guess that suchmoon is some sort of default trust and thats what caused Lauda to start answering minor questions. Shows character when a person shows zero respect to everyone until someone with a bit of power steps in.

disclaimer: i am in no way involved in this failed ICO, just a reader and occasional user of escrow.

edit to add: This is the absolute worst case scenario for any escrow to have to deal with. I honestly do wish this never did happen in the real world and this part of the job would not have to come up and even present itself. It is very unfortunate but it is why the fee charged should be substantial enough to put up with this kind of headache. I fully believe the escrows need to be paid just as well during the good times as the bad times. Think of it like car insurance.