Quote from: guybrushthreepwood on September 07, 2018, 12:05:47 PM

Quote from: BADecker on September 05, 2018, 08:30:17 PM

Aw, did I hurt your itty-bitty feelings?

Not at all. How did you come to the conclusion that my feelings were hurt by what I just said? I thought I made a pretty rational argument. - (Do you see? In the stuff, below, this is what I am talking about) - You assume that I came to some kind of conclusion that your feelings were hurt. At least, that's the way your wrote, above. But you answered my question for what it was, a question. Then you sort of went on the defensive against what? a question? This shows that you are defensive when there is nothing to be defensive about. What in the world state of mind are you in, anyway?

Quote from: BADecker on September 05, 2018, 08:30:17 PM

There is lots of proof for the fact that God exists. Simply check out the "Scientific proof that God exists?" thread to see the proof.

There is no proof there. Just assumptions. You can't really fully prove that something made up doesn't exist, just like you can't with Russell's teapot or the flying spaghetti monster. - Do you think that outer space doesn't exist simply because we can't get a handle on nothingness? Is outer space make believe? In the same way, we prove God by measuring things that prove that it was God that made them, even though we can't get a handle on God Himself. But this is talk for a different thread.

Quote from: BADecker on September 05, 2018, 08:30:17 PM

The simplest of the proofs is the machine nature of the universe. Machines have makers.

Isn't god a machine? If the universe needs a designer then so does god. If he creates then he needs a creator himself. God cannot exist with your logic. - We don't know what God is. Something outside the universe is something totally foreign to anything in this universe, including our way to evaluate it. But this is talk for a different thread.

Quote from: BADecker on September 05, 2018, 08:30:17 PM

Either you believe that God might exist, because you know that there are many place you haven't checked for Him yet, and He might be in one of those places...

Or you firmly believe that God doesn't exist, which makes you into a god, so God does exist in you simply believing that god doesn't exist. After all, it takes a god to make the faithful pronouncement that God doesn't exist, especially when it is possible that He might exist somewhere that you haven't checked out yet.

Either way, God/god exists. So, not atheist, really. But even if there could somehow be an atheist, atheism is a religion with a god... the atheist, himself.

What sort of unholy twisted logic is this? It's mind-blowing the way you play mental gymnastics and twist logic to suit your argument. Not believing in a god doesn't make you a god yourself, and I'm not sure how you can even twist such logic to come to a conclusion. - Not believing in the existence of God, when you know that He might possibly exist somewhere, is setting yourself up higher than the God of the possibility. So, you are setting yourself up as god above God to make such a judgment.

Quote from: BADecker on September 05, 2018, 08:30:17 PM

Or can't you think clearly enough to understand all this?

I'm not sure you understand what clear thinking is. You've just claimed to prove the existence of god because atheists exist which means therefore god exists. - I didn't say or claim that... at least not directly. I asked a question. Are you afraid you will be claiming that you are a god if you answer my question?

Quote from: BADecker on September 05, 2018, 08:30:17 PM

The difference between atheists and the Dawkins unicorns is this. Atheism is like a unicorn trying to believe unicorns don't exist. Atheism is like a god trying to believe God/god doesn't exist.

No. It's like unicorns not existing and some idiot trying to prove that they do just by saying "unicorns exists because you don't believe in them". - Yet, if the unicorns try to prove that they exist or don't exist... It's like us acting like god when we try to prove that God exists or doesn't. The proof for God is in the other thread.

Quote from: BADecker on September 05, 2018, 08:30:17 PM

In the God-proof thread I linked, above, there are proofs listed for God. I even mentioned one of them. This means that people who understand the proof, absolutely know that God exists. This means that they lack belief in the existence of God. Why would they lack belief in His existence? Because they know He exists by the proof found in nature and other places.

Nature doesn't prove there's a creator. - From our point of view, nature does prove that there is a creator. From the Creator's point of view, we don't know. Nature exists because it finds a way to by adapting to its surroundings. - Circular. If nature doesn't exist (like before it existed) it can't do anything. It certainly can't find a way to adapt. In fact, it's nature that leads me to believe there is no god. - Such is your religion, since nature shows the existence of God. Nature is a beast and if it had a designer it would almost certainly work much differently and kinder with likely no basis in science but just magic. If there's a god that can and does do magic with no basis is reality then why do we need to work within the confines of reality? - Such is part of your religion, since nature shows the existence of a different God. Humans and animals wouldn't need lungs to breathe air or blood vessels to transport blood and nutrients. We wouldn't need to eat. We wouldn't need internal organs. We do because we evolved them to utilize the things we need to use as energy to function. If there's a god then we wouldn't need to eat or breathe. People wouldn't starve to death or die of cancer. People get cancer because genes mutate. Bad design, but that's evolution for you... far from perfect, because it didn't have an intelligent creator behind it. - Why do you think that God wouldn't do things the way He wanted? Just because you would do things this way or that, you don't even have the ability to imagine all the things that go on in the universe. You are way to small to judge what the God of the universe would do or wouldn't do.

BTW, if you're going to start worshiping nature it sounds more like you might be actually a pagan Grin

. - Actually, you are the one who is essentially worshiping nature. How? By thinking that nature could do all the miraculous, wonderful, fantastic, marvelous things that it does without God.

Quote from: BADecker on September 05, 2018, 08:30:17 PM

The ironic thing here is that this makes people who know that God exists, more atheists than atheists themselves. Why? Because part of the definition of atheist is "lacks belief in the existence of God." People who know that God exists, lack belief both in His existence or His non-existence, because they are outside the realm of believing or not believing such a thing. They know God exists... no room for belief or unbelief or non-belief.

I mean, when you sit down at the table for supper, you don't believe the plate of food is there. Either it is there and you know it, or it is not there and you know it. No belief one way or the other involved at all. But look at the definition for "atheism:"
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.
It has to do with belief or disbelief. When you know, you don't believe or disbelieve.

Theories that can't be debunked are facts, not theories.

Cool

I just can't even.... Huh

That's exactly the point. You can't even. All of mankind can't even. The best that people do on their own is guesstimate. And that is the precise reason why science becomes a religion for many people.