Quote from: squatter on September 18, 2018, 06:53:47 PM

Quote from: fxsurfer on September 17, 2018, 07:47:56 PM

Quote from: squatter on September 17, 2018, 07:03:51 PM

Quote from: fxsurfer on September 17, 2018, 08:15:21 AM

So, Peter owns 2 numbers and Peter owns number 2. But how can someone own a number? The first three rows in our database clearly show that numbers are just means to quantify things, they are not things that are owned. As such, these numbers are valueless on their own, and they can be created out of thin air.

Bitcoin is a "thing" just like the others, which is why it's generally treated as property or currency. The fact that you can only fathom bitcoins as "numbers" is just a function of your own limitations.

And bitcoins definitely can't be created out of thin air. You can spin up another new cryptocurrency out of thin air, but not bitcoins. People across the world run Bitcoin nodes that enforce the protocol. They completely ignore any attempts to print BTC out of thin air.

Bitcoin is a number in a database, not a thing. A thing is some entity, object, or creature that exists outside the database which contains some data about it. I explained this already.

That explanation is completely inadequate. Why do bitcoins need to be "things" at all? This is a requirement you invented without reason. You say, "if we now ask what actual thing outside the database is owned by Peter, we face an inherent contradiction."

Owning bitcoins doesn't entail owning "things outside the decentralized ledger." Why would it need to? The whole point is that they're a native currency in a monetary network. If you have a balance at a bank, you don't have a "thing" to show for it either -- only numbers in the bank's database, numbers on a screen. Do dollars have no value when they're just numbers in a database? What matters is what other people will pay for them, not your circular proofs that depend on your cherry-picked definitions.

Also, let's take a look at the definition of "thing."

Quote

1 : an object or entity not precisely designated or capable of being designated. 2a : an inanimate object distinguished from a living being. b : a separate and distinct individual quality, fact, idea, or usually entity. 5a : possessions, effects. 5b : whatever may be possessed or owned or be the object of a right.

How are bitcoins not "things?"

Everything in universe that is made up of atoms can be called a thing. But does that mean everything has value? Of course not. So even if we call bitcoin a thing this doesn't make it valuable.