Quote from: Mahkul on August 17, 2011, 07:15:02 PM

I think you are missing the point. Scammers use verified Paypal accounts, it doesn't make any difference whatsoever.
Another thing is - the rightful owners do chargebacks as well - claiming their account was taken over. How do you deal with that? Paypal doesn't give a shit about our logs, IPs, screenshots and whatnot. Don't use it - that's it. I am so looking forward to the day when Bitcoin will finally take over from Paypal.

i got other ways to deal with paypal
as you probaly know to , i sell virtual goods ( vps servers and webhosting ) and there is no difference with bitcoin
bitcoin is a virtual currency , so same rules apply to them

in first place it depends how mutch you use paypal ( it build up the trust with paypal itself) and how many problems you dealed with before (and definaly what you are selling as business account)

i do not know how the usa paypal take care of things , but the dutch paypal is kinda harder to get charged back from

i got on regulair time claims from users that says the same as you do , that claims that there paypal is hacked or that they dit not authorise the sending
and they do accept my logs i provide to them ( if i provide them , mostly i do not even provide them anything as that is not needed for me )

on 2 years time only 2 chargebacks where sucesfull
and 1 chargeback from it was because the user used a stolen visa card ( he dit not even use a paypal account ) , tooks about 14 days to solve that problem and i lost that claim because they got a lot of proof that it was realy a stolen creditcard

then a other claim was because of my mistake , i provided them the wrong information about the claim so the user could get that claim valid (to long ago to provide more detais about it )

for the rest i got on regulair times claims about the vps servers , about donations ( from games ) and about other stuff and i never lost them
so i see no reason why i woulnd be able to defend me from bitcoin fraude ?

then to answer the other question
bitcoin as final trading currency is a realy bad idea
reason is that it is realy hard to track where it is sended to , that you can easy lose the files ( as it are files) and that it is a 1 way sending only (so you get the coins or not .. )

then we dit not talk yet about the market and the rates it got all the time and how you can get them

as soon bitcoin got a api system and a verification system so you know that it get sended to the persone , a safe system to get things recovered in case you lose them and a safe tracking system to validate the sending then it can be something
but then it still need a kinda fixed rate like the other currency's , or do you see that 1 will become 10$ in 1 day ?? and next day just 2$ like bitcoin does ?

anyway , it is not for me to deside what bitcoin wil be or what it should become
i dit not know about that scammers used verified paypal accounts , as it sound strange to me to link a visa card to a account if you use it to scam .. (it get locked by paypal if they figure out that it get used for scamming )

but my thing stays the same
i want to help the community with offering my services as a escrow ( third party ) service , so the buyer get his bitcoins and the seller get his money for sure
so if the buyer want to scam that he need to deal with me and not to the seller that does not have the knowledge about paypal that i have and never dealed with the problems i dealed with

if they are realy that hard to fight then paypal will be able to stop them soon enouf , as paypal get a lot of info from me with every case i need to deal with so they can prevent it from happening
and as side note , every payment get past my billing system , and a billing system is a official document that does count as proof (specialy when it send a conformation email)
so if the user refuse to react on that in a given time then 95% of the claims are already invalid for paypal (in my case) as the owner can not say that it was a unwanted/stolen card after XX time (or does users never read emails ??)

anyway
dealing with paypal is part of my problem
if i can not handle the problem anymore then i will close my escrow service , but at this moment i make sure that the sellers realy got his money even if i lose money because of it

it is my way to fight against abusing , i want to show the scammers that it is not easy to get money back if they try to do it from some1 who know how to fight back and got differend ways for proof against chargebacks that get accepted

as special i will even make a list of the users with there email + paypal + bitcoin adress + username + maybe his password if i am allowed to release it ( need to do some research about that ) of the users who are trying to make a claim ( sucesfull or not .. a claim is a claim) so others are warned to

as my escrow works only betwean buyer/seller directly does the seller know to that the buyer is a scammer or not , as the seller already talked to the buyer and is just using me to finish the trade

anyway
enouf about me
if i need to be honnest , i would leave paypal avaible , it is the user there responsibility to trade the stuff , they press confirm and they take the risk to use paypal
it is like sending money to a other bank or by getting a check ... if i put the check on a other name then it is invalid to and i still got my items ?? or not ??

you can suggest not to use it , but you can not take the responsibility on you if they use it , its the user there responsibility if they want to use it as long they know the risks ofcourse

hopely i explained myself good enouf as it is kinda hard to explain this kind of things to show what i mean

Greets From PowerChaos