Quote from: CoinCube on October 03, 2018, 01:20:01 AM

Quote from: af_newbie on October 03, 2018, 12:11:30 AM

Please show us that the universe can be treated as a Turing machine.

Here is the formal logic behind claim #1. Credit for this goes to Perry Marshal who outlined it here:

See: The #1 Mathematical Discovery of the 20th Century

Stated in Formal Language:

Gödels theorem says: Any effectively generated theory capable of expressing elementary arithmetic cannot be both consistent and complete. In particular, for any consistent, effectively generated formal theory that proves certain basic arithmetic truths, there is an arithmetical statement that is true, but not provable in the theory.

The Church-Turing thesis says that a physical system can express elementary arithmetic just as a human can, and that the arithmetic of a Turing Machine (computer) is not provable within the system and is likewise subject to incompleteness.

Any physical system subjected to measurement is capable of expressing elementary arithmetic. (In other words, children can do math by counting their fingers, water flowing into a bucket does integration, and physical systems always give the right answer.)

~~Therefore the universe is capable of expressing elementary arithmetic~~ and like both mathematics itself and a Turing machine, is incomplete.

Syllogism:
1. All non-trivial computational systems are incomplete
2. The universe is a non-trivial computational system
3. Therefore the universe is incomplete

Read my previous post. Our universe cannot be represented by the "elementary arithmetic". We have infinities and quantum effects that we know cannot be represented in a Turing automaton.

The above deduction is invalid. Full stop.