Quote from: joulesbeef on August 20, 2011, 06:20:57 PM

deepbit op thinks we are evil and is working hard to get rid of us

I really dont get this mindset of theft, everyone gets paid exactly for the shares they submit.

For one, most people hopped onto bitcoin because it was profitable and most would leave when it isnt. WE just do that same at the pool level.
Most of them hopper haters would have no problem hopping onto a rival currency when it becomes more profitable.
But somehow they seem to want to think that pool hopping is different and like to call us names.. the pols even said us hoppers were akin to murderers

You have seen the jars of jellybeans where they want you to guess how many are in there. Most people just make a random guess.. some wiser people buy a jar and some jellybeans and try to find out how many it holds. It isnt cheating, he didnt break into the real jar and count the jellybeans, he is just trying to maximise his chances of winning.

Oh i get why they dont like it.. they are lazy and they dont like seeing others make more money than them..

yeah yeah yeah their shares are worth less on the short blocks and a tad bit more on the long blocks and they want it the other way arround.

But the thing is.,. IF WE STAYED and did not hop.. their shares on the short blocks would be the same.. but their shares on the long blocks would be even less..

eh sorry for the rant, i know their is a thread for this.. I dont see why deepbit cares, we are such a small percent of their total hash, that we really dont effect their users much at all. ANything perceieved is most likely due to luck and not hoppers.

You seem to be the best at these self-denial diatribes, perhaps arguing with yourself to justify your unethical behaviour in pool hopping.

Think of it this way: Imagine there is a bakery that leaves day-old loaves of bread out for the homeless at closing time, and then you start coming by and take all the bread every day. Others in need get none. Then after complaints, the bakery decides to put out the bread at random times so one person doesn't take them all, so then you have someone watch the bakery all the time and still come get the bread when they put it out. Then the bakery stops putting out the bread and makes the homeless come in and ask for their fair share, it seems then you would rant about how the bakery is unethical, you would never shop there, etc. The bakery doesn't want you anyway, you contribute nothing, your complaints are unheard.

Or: The convenience store has a take-a-penny, leave-a-penny tray. You come in three times a day and take all the pennies from the tray. You go around to all the convenience stores and do this. Eventually they put the pennies behind the counter so only the clerk can grab some pennies for you to make nice change. To counter this, you plan your purchases to always need pennies, so you can get the clerk to add pennies to your purchase. Eventually they quit, and nobody has the convenience anymore.

This is what you are doing to bitcoin and pools. The goal of pools is not directly to "solve blocks", and saying that pool hoppers "help solve blocks" is a straw-man argument. A pool is there for bitcoin miners to pool their resources to reduce variability and get more regular payments. Miners do not pool mine to make more or less money, they pool mine to make the same expected amount, but not have to wait months for a payout. Having a bunch of opportunists jump on and saying we "help solve blocks" is merely a convenient and fallacious excuse for stealing the early shares in pool rounds that are compensated more because of the chance of a short round happening, in an otherwise fair payment system for full-time miners. You think your work should be paid more than everybody else's? You think everyone else's earnings should be decreased because the short rounds (that should compensate full-time miners for the long ones they suffer) are exploited? It is fair to hit the bandwidth of a dozen pool's web pages every minute and open a bunch of TCP sockets, causing pool ops to need hardware upgrades and spend time with mitigation measures? You think pools want more variability - shorter short rounds and longer long rounds? That is an antisocial narcissistic notion.

Pool hoppers do decrease the earnings of everyone else in pools, and on bitcoin as a whole. Hoppers aren't adding more hashrate to bitcoin, they are just strategically moving around their share submissions to be compensated more for the same amount of work, more than others. This leaves less earnings for others on a pool, and less earnings for all bitcoin users. Legitimate pool miners have less time to submit shares in short rounds, and then they have to split those earnings with more people.

It is game on, pools that still prefer the proportional payment method should do whatever in their power makes their pool mining experience a positive one, including not having egocentrists degrade a fair rewards system and network stability.