Quote from: Biomech on January 25, 2014, 06:44:23 AM

Quote from: seriouscoin on January 14, 2014, 04:19:42 PM

Quote from: Ytterbium on January 14, 2014, 03:58:23 PM

Quote from: loshia on January 14, 2014, 03:30:16 PM

Quote from: xstr8guy on January 14, 2014, 10:35:29 AM

Quote from: loshia on January 14, 2014, 09:36:25 AM

Quote from: xstr8guy on January 14, 2014, 09:23:04 AM

I honestly have no idea what you're saying. I'll just keep mining BTC and buying more gear. And when I've had enough, I'll sell my ASICs for even more profit. But thanks for trying! Cool

Super,
Good luck!
Let us hope that you have no idea what i am talking about because my English is not native, not because you are refusing to understand what is all about.

Best

A bit of both, I guess. Wink

Just curious... why do people like you feel the need to post this "you'll never ROI" nonsense in the Custom Hardware forum when there's a whole section devoted to Mining Speculation.

Because I want a fair price and the only way to get it is to stop paying the ridiculous amounts for the EOF hardware. Only way this to happen is to try to convince people like you. That is why I am posting occasionally here and there. Please do excuse me for that, but all this nonce is leading us to nowhere.

People have been saying that from the beginning. If you go back and look at early 2011, when I started GPU mining whether I came out ahead mining or buying bitcoin depends on when I would have bought them. I made way more BTC from GPU mining then I would have from if I had just bought bitcoin for around $5-10. unfortunately I ended up selling a lot of those bitcoins around $10... I did still make a pretty big USD profit, though and I had enough bitcoin left over for a B2 Avalon, which again more then paid for itself.

The thing is, I made most of my bitcoins in the long phase where difficulty leveled off before the first ASICs hit the network. Eventually the same thing is likely going to happen with ASIC miners, margins are already getting pretty thin, but the difficulty is going to have to go up a long way before they're unable to pay for their own electricity, and when prices go up the margins on that electricity go up as well. So for example, my Avalon is probably still making about $15/day, while using about $1.26 in power. So, even though the difficulty has gone way up, the usable life has been extended.

Please think of ROI in BTC.... not in fiat.

The point is spending BTC now and you're not gonna get back that amount of BTC. Price goes up, your stash value goes up, contrast to mining.... price goes up, difficulty will continue to rise due to noobs, your mining gear's value goes down, getting harder to get back that initial BTC.

What i've learned since mining is that simply buying BTC and hold would gain alot more.

I think of ROI as a Return On Investment, because that's what it means. The formula is somewhat simple, the data are not. But your oversimplifcation, which I see all the time here, is ridiculous on it's face and even more so if you analyze it in depth.

If you invested 10BTC at 10 bucks back a couple years ago to get back 1 BTC today, you made a massive profit. Not merely a ROI, but an actual, spendable, tradeable profit. The form it takes is truly irrelevant, unless you are beholden to some sort of cult mentality. Me, I trade BTC for dollars on the high side and dollars for BTC on the low side. I also will trade anything of value for anything else of value. This is the nature of trade. Supply, demand, and the differential betwixt them. Purchasing power trumps numerical value or labels.

o please, not "this again". advice and opinions that make NO economic sense passed off as sound advice. just cause you like "mining" whatever crap you like mining doesn't mean that it makes FINANCIAL sense doing so. just keep it at that. hell, some people will dig a hole in the ground for free just for fun. would you ever mine 1 lb of gold. give it away as an investment. get 1 oz of gold back in the future and be happy that the nominal/relative price of gold is up?! fuck no. you went from having 1lb of gold to 1 oz of gold. the same SIMPLE economic principle applies here irrespective of what a person enjoys doing for "fun and gratification".
losing money, losing "commodity" losing makes no sense. you buy equipment in bitcoins that generate bitcoins. what's the point of that machine will yield you LESS bitcoins than you bought it with. the value of 1 bitcoin doesn't matter at all.
maybe that's why the market prices that make no sense keep being floated around - either people don't care or they just don't get it